THE VRISCOURSE THREAD

[AsherCrane]

I do think that pre-death, the way she seemed to mostly dodge or not have things like...truly effect her is what gave me that suspicion in the first place. Yes she lost her eye, and she lost her arm, and yes she did (rightfully) get beat and left to bleed to death, but then she GTed and pretty much all of that was instantly rectified(And then she got the bonus of GTing too?), and she never seemed to truly care about her aliments outside them being maybe an annoyance sometimes. All of that happened and as far as I recall it didn't have an impact on her such as Aradia dying, Tavros being disabled, and blinding terezi did. They all in some way or form, changed when those things happened to them, when stuff like that happened to Vriska, she didn't seem to change at all.

At least if she stayed dead, like you have mentioned she might've been left at a slightly mary sue-ish villain, who was trying to make a change in the afterlife for herself.

But honestly I'd argue that the stuff done by Vriska didn't need to be done by her at all. What happened to Terezi having other friends, what if she send John back to revive someone else who she missed/knew out of all of them needed a fair second chance. Pretty much all of the trolls had some knowledge of the box, and arguably could've found it instead. Like what if we saw Eridan come back, or Feferi? Or having trolls that did sort of come back, come back in a more perm. fashion like Nepeta, Tavros, Equius? Or had the former/current leader Karkat cement his role as being a leader?

Hell Terezi could've lead the last of the trolls and the humans herself! She seemed plenty capable of ordering people(John) around while on deaths doorstep, and he followed her rules! So, why Vriska in the first place?

In response to this, I will say at least half the fan base, if not more, would have been likewise angered if Eridan had been the one saved instead of Vriska. On a seperate note, I wonder how she would have suggested John save the others? Terezi wasn’t even privy to the deaths of Tavros, Feferi, Nepeta, and Equius, and Saving Eridan would have required John get between an angry Kanaya’s Chainsaw and the person he was meant to save. Not to mention the aforementioned equal outrage for the survival of a character who is frequently seen as equally bad or worse than Vriska.

At the point of GO, Terezi, as far as I am aware, was only able to interact with her own memories, not possess a full knowledge of things she had no possible way of knowing happened. Vriska was one of maybe 2 viable choices, and between those two, she was fond of Vriska one heckuvalot more than Eridan.

[foreverFlummoxed]

In response to this, I will say at least half the fan base, if not more, would have been likewise angered if Eridan had been the one saved instead of Vriska. On a seperate note, I wonder how she would have suggested John save the others? Terezi wasn’t even privy to the deaths of Tavros, Feferi, Nepeta, and Equius, and Saving Eridan would have required John get between an angry Kanaya’s Chainsaw and the person he was meant to save. Not to mention the aforementioned equal outrage for the survival of a character who is frequently seen as equally bad or worse than Vriska.

At the point of GO, Terezi, as far as I am aware, was only able to interact with her own memories, not possess a full knowledge of things she had no possible way of knowing happened. Vriska was one of maybe 2 viable choices, and between those two, she was fond of Vriska one heckuvalot more than Eridan.

Terezi knew that Tavros' body fell from where she was when she started her "BL1ND JUST1C3 1NV3ST1G4T1ON" while correctly suspecting Vriska and she did find Nepeta's (and Equius') body(s) where Gamzee had done something deadly to her (and strangled Equius) and since Terezi sent John after Gamzee she probably figured out/was told that he did that one and lastly Terezi knew that Feferi died after she left and while Sollux was still there in the computer room. So it could have been a few extra steps of "go to this moment and then move away to this place in order to do a thing" but it could have been done.

it was Game Over Terezi's conscious choice to prevent Vriska's death and not attempt alternative methods.

[harmoniousCalamity]

Vriska did do a lot of things wrong, and I am in no way, shape or form condoning her actions, but it's important to consider the environment she grew up in as well! The big question is, does it justify her actions later in life?

good question, and it doesn't. although i understand she was abused and forced to kill and was in constant danger, she became the abuser after she was out of that situation. thats where she really went wrong

Edit, Again: Cleared post, mind was jumbled, but yea agree. & there's like really no justification reason for like, murdering/disabling someone for 'revenge' , and commiting sexual assault because you wanna anyways.

[TantamountTurnabout]

I really dont like Vriska, specially after act 6.

Honestly so much of what you mention here has been living in my brain Absolutely Rent Free for like, Months.
Like, Vriska's entire character is based around Hubris. She puts herself and her own interests ahead of others constantly, and since she's so powerful no one can really hold her accountable anymore. She hurts the people around her, but since she never experiences any consequences she has no motivation to change. This just builds the narrative consequence, the shoe that has to drop becoming heavier and heavier, until it catches up with her. Terezi is forced to kill her closest friend, because if she lived, it would be at the expense of everyone else. HUBRIS. Then, as a ghost, Vriska is losing her MIND because she's no longer Relevant, she's no longer Important. She has no more or less power than anyone else because nothing really matters in death. She's immediately enamored with Meenah because she has all the self assuredness and "too cool for anyone else" attitude that Vriska is comfortable having, and when Meenah ditches her, Vriska has to contend with how it feels when someone treats you as expendable, the way she used to treat others. It forces her to like, grow as a person, and is rewarded for this growth by reuniting with Terezi, her closest friend, as a better person! IT'S A WHOLE ASS ARC
So going back and removing her death, removing the One Consequence She Ever Experienced, completely removes her character! She stays exactly the same! She never improves or changes, she's just, Also Here. It bizarrely condones everything she's done up until that point because no one and Nothing holds her accountable. She Put An Autistic Kid In A Wheelchair And Then Abused Him Until She Got Bored And Murdered Him Like Does Any Character Wanna Talk About That No She's Just Cool Now. All of her actions go unremarked on or are textually Improved By Her Involvement which is just such a Bizarre reading experience.

And then the thought that Terezi uses John's Canon Breaking Powers Which Can Get Around The Inherent Cruelty Of The One True Timeline And Save Anyone Without Consequence and Only Saves Vriska definitely gives pause on second go around.
Like, one, completely destroys her arc and makes her a static character from that point onward, but Two, why Just Her? Like, the meteor was a horrible tragic culmination of these adolescent teens with God Powers but no ability to resolve inter and intrapersonal conflict, the Point is that it's sad and unfair, the Point is that you can't save everybody, because this is the only timeline that works, this is how it has to be Even If it hurts. But then John gets powers that let him circumvent that so, you sort of could? If you wanted to? Which would be a bit of a pull but so's saving Vriska? And also in return you get the opportunity to let their arcs conclude! You get these kids some Therapy. Even the "Irredeemable" characters, you can give them the time and resources to just become better, more functional, self-actualized people. You can go into the final battle with a full roster! It'd even have a sort of, Best Ending Visual Novel feel, which fits in fine with the heavily videos game refrential material. Sure, it's a little broken or self indulgent, but John's canon powers sort of are by their nature. It might also give Terezi a sort of characterful moment, revealing that she's never stopped thinking about what happened on the meteor, never stopped trying to figure out what she could have done to have fixed everything, saved everyone. And then on her Deathbed she's suddenly given the opportunity to do so? To make a better future she might not be able to experience but she know would be out there? Good Stuff.

Like, I like Vriska as a character, this isn't a Is She Good And Cool Or Bad And Bad, like, she's a fictional character, she doesn't Have Morals somebody wrote her. But cutting out the part where she actually Faces A Consequence and has to confront herself just, cuts out her whole character. She becomes a cardboard cutout, shallow and unreactive.

[TantamountTurnabout]

i know i tend to double post but these are like over a month apart and i asked my priest and she said it was okay

Does the Vriska Lives timeline feel kind of arbitrary to anyone else? Like a lot of problems that had been built up as complicated and personal are just solved because Vriska Is Here Now. Rose is picking up a drinking problem to cope with the mundanity of the meteor travel, and because it's one of the few things her late mother lefter her (alcoholism is said to have a genetic predisposition after all). Kanaya is bothered by this, but is too conflict averse and still someone blinded by her respect for Rose to put her foot down about it. And then we get, two frames in a flash, where Vriska makes Rose stop drinking because it... Annoys her? Notorious straight edge Vriska Serket? And then the Terezi Gamzee hateship thing, while i think it makes sense that it wouldn't happen with V around cuz it's pretty predicated on Terezi's guilt and loneliness post meteor, i feel like it's framed as Vriska again just sort of Fixing It.

And then she shows up with the fridge instead of Gamzee on LoHaC and she's just, there instead? With Gamzee it sort of made sense because he's textually bizarre and unpredictable and it's weird but consistent for him to pop up in random places (i still don't know how he ended up on caliborn's planet) but Vriska's supposed to be a pretty important figure? Why's she just, here? It's like she's gone from being a character in her own right to being, i dont know, a Mascot. A Logo.

[PilotBlackSmith]

i know i tend to double post but these are like over a month apart and i asked my priest and she said it was okay

Does the Vriska Lives timeline feel kind of arbitrary to anyone else? Like a lot of problems that had been built up as complicated and personal are just solved because Vriska Is Here Now. Rose is picking up a drinking problem to cope with the mundanity of the meteor travel, and because it's one of the few things her late mother lefter her (alcoholism is said to have a genetic predisposition after all). Kanaya is bothered by this, but is too conflict averse and still someone blinded by her respect for Rose to put her foot down about it. And then we get, two frames in a flash, where Vriska makes Rose stop drinking because it... Annoys her? Notorious straight edge Vriska Serket? And then the Terezi Gamzee hateship thing, while i think it makes sense that it wouldn't happen with V around cuz it's pretty predicated on Terezi's guilt and loneliness post meteor, i feel like it's framed as Vriska again just sort of Fixing It.

And then she shows up with the fridge instead of Gamzee on LoHaC and she's just, there instead? With Gamzee it sort of made sense because he's textually bizarre and unpredictable and it's weird but consistent for him to pop up in random places (i still don't know how he ended up on caliborn's planet) but Vriska's supposed to be a pretty important figure? Why's she just, here? It's like she's gone from being a character in her own right to being, i dont know, a Mascot. A Logo.

Yeah its called bad writing.

[TantamountTurnabout]

Yeah its called bad writing.

Okay yes but I think the fact it came after so much Better Writing, strong characterization, engaging plots etc etc, makes it stand out that much more. It set the bar high enough that it stands out that much more when it isn't cleared! It's like seein somebody pole vault 20 ft and then follow it up by just, walking under the bar, not even using a pole or anything, and flopping onto the mattress. Hey buddy you sure did put a lot of effort into twisting your own rules to bring back a supposedly important character, you gonna have them like, do? Anything? Or...?

Not that the pre vriska lives writing was consistently great or anything.
Was reminded that Ghost Tavros' entire character was "i am pretending vriska is my girlfriend and want to marry her and am very annoying about it" which is. bonk your head and forget all but two character traits huh.
I'm worried I'm gonna do a big homestuck reread and be like "oh no there are like, 15 good pages in here"

[TantamountTurnabout]

I'm worried I'm gonna do a big homestuck reread and be like "oh no there are like, 15 good pages in here"

I'm straight up doing a harry potter on this comic. Anytime the writing is bad I just, forget about that part, and remember it as a consistent cohesive work when really it's like, seven remembered events and a thin line of themes between them that are just there because I Want them to be.
I'm gonna be like "haha i can't believe nerds read about deathly hallows introducing a Second Set of no set up macguffins and just pretended it was good Ooh John Get Funny Plot Powers Tell Me More"

[pellet_ice]

Me personally, I think Vriska is cute and silly!!!! Did she do anything wrong? Let's ask other me.

pellet.ice: be other pellet.ice
pellet.ice: be high as balls

WOAH DUUUUUUUUDE. My girl, Vriska? Cha, I know 'er. She's radical and uhhhh...okay I can't say THE phrase. But she's like soooooo lesbian rights and asuka langley yaknow? So- VRISKA DID NOTHING WORNG TEHEHEHEEHEHEH

[Naite]

i heart vriska, though she did a lot of things that are wrong, i think she's a great character -- just not a great person. her designs pretty cool tho

[shelby_rosary]

I wonder how long this godforsaken thread will get.

My personal Vriscourse take is that I much preferred her character development pre-retcon. On the whole, I think she's a great character, I just don't like her in the slightest.

Edit: oh my god, the thread is at 8 pages. It's perfect, honestly. I'm making this an edit instead of a wholly new post because I'm worried of ruining the sanctity of this nigh-biblical happenstance.

[compassionateCrafter]

I mean imo even if you were abused when you were young that does NOT mean you can just abuse others and be excused for it. That's not how it works.

Yeah i gotta agree, alternian society is messed up no doubt about it but look at the way she treated tavros. the way some people find a way to defend her harassment of him for a disability she caused and her forcing him to kiss her was weird as shit. Alternia sucked but im not gonna pretend i can make a defense for those actions even with how she grew up. people grow up in awful life situations all the time and dont become straight up abusers.

[qwerty9537]

i don't know what vriska did, can someone enlighten me?

[Tofutush++]

i don't know what vriska did, can someone enlighten me?

consiously chose to be a huge bitch, and didnt get any karma. that basically sums her up.

[toxicTrepidations]

Vriska did everything wrong and thats why i love her

[ForkOfSpoon]

vriska isnt real i refuse to believe anyone who says she is

[gardenAgnostic]

vriska feels like a high school mean girl to me

[leafsquire]

vriska feels like a high school mean girl to me

same. most popular girls in school, homestuck edition.

Honestly so much of what you mention here has been living in my brain Absolutely Rent Free for like, Months.
Like, Vriska's entire character is based around Hubris. She puts herself and her own interests ahead of others constantly, and since she's so powerful no one can really hold her accountable anymore. She hurts the people around her, but since she never experiences any consequences she has no motivation to change. This just builds the narrative consequence, the shoe that has to drop becoming heavier and heavier, until it catches up with her. Terezi is forced to kill her closest friend, because if she lived, it would be at the expense of everyone else. HUBRIS. Then, as a ghost, Vriska is losing her MIND because she's no longer Relevant, she's no longer Important. She has no more or less power than anyone else because nothing really matters in death. She's immediately enamored with Meenah because she has all the self assuredness and "too cool for anyone else" attitude that Vriska is comfortable having, and when Meenah ditches her, Vriska has to contend with how it feels when someone treats you as expendable, the way she used to treat others. It forces her to like, grow as a person, and is rewarded for this growth by reuniting with Terezi, her closest friend, as a better person! IT'S A WHOLE ASS ARC
So going back and removing her death, removing the One Consequence She Ever Experienced, completely removes her character! She stays exactly the same! She never improves or changes, she's just, Also Here. It bizarrely condones everything she's done up until that point because no one and Nothing holds her accountable. She Put An Autistic Kid In A Wheelchair And Then Abused Him Until She Got Bored And Murdered Him Like Does Any Character Wanna Talk About That No She's Just Cool Now. All of her actions go unremarked on or are textually Improved By Her Involvement which is just such a Bizarre reading experience.

you've worded my own feelings better than i ever could have!! i was never a fan of vriska because of the way she treated tavros but she actually grew on me when she became a ghost and developed as a person. and then we decided to erase that and make her our perfect cool bad girl mascot because morals and karma don't exist i guess

the only way i can justify vriska coming back to life is if i headcanon that her ghost/memories melded with her when she came back, à la doomed rose

[[[[ven]

Maybe without vriska all of the trolls would have died, but that doesn't justify her actions, and it definitely doesn't mean that she was in the right to kill tavros because he would have died without her influence anyway.

[Hall0w Helvet]

she could have been a good character if it weren't for societal expectations and forcing, and i would say she did a fuck ton wrong, and that she especially needs to be checked back into reality, perhaps to help her realise that she doesn't have to be the best.
i think that, perhaps, in a world where vriska were a better person and have done the right thing, perhaps she could have been more of an aradia-esc character? alive aradia, of course.