ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Discuss post-canon works such as the Homestuck Epilogues, Pesterquest, or Homestuck 2 here!

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ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by BrobyDDark » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:21 pm

In this thread we discuss what the community would do if we were to make our own Homestuck^2 with blackjack and hookers

Timeskip redesigns, plot details, character progression, handling of lgbt themes, and MOST IMPORTANTLY

canon ships.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by luigi » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:48 pm

I'll have more to say later but for now I would like to mention that I personally liked the epilogues, and the first chapter of Homestuck^2 was actually an amazing setup. It was everything chapter 2 and onward (not counting influencers - but that should have been part of the main story) that sucked.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by BrobyDDark » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:07 pm

I liked Johnrezi and I have an appreciation for Meat after having read Candy.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by Shitpost Lizard » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm

Scrap everything.
Disregard Epilogues.
Make the sequel comic a prequel about either the session that created the trolls' universe, or about the origins of the Game itself. Possibly both.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by Shaddytheguy » Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:26 am

Other than the rape, which can definitely go, I think a lot of HS2's concepts are perfectly salvageable. Most of the comic's problems for me were in presentation. It was full of this not-so-funny narration, a ton of kind of incomprehensible dialogue and character interactions, and a tone that felt confused. I kept finding myself asking "who is this for? what am I supposed to be feeling here?" and not knowing what the answer was. The bare plot of it all, and honestly, even most of the character moments, are not that big of an issue to me, at least for what the epilogues set up. Would Rose secretly conceive a child with Jade and not tell Kanaya? Uhh...I dunno, maybe? Does the thirty year difference change them? Well, obviously, but the ways we find out everyone's changed are kind of mixed. It felt insubstantial, like there was a piece missing, and not just the in-universe ones.

I think with more time to stew, the team might be able to better coordinate and decide on things, and frankly, having a big thread about the comic after it comes out all at once is better than a monthly series of "wah it sucks" posts written with nothing but bitterness from people who frankly might be better served to just not read it if it's that big of a problem. I'm here because I know it can do better, and ironically, it did in the last update before the change, and I'm not so terminally-Homestuck'd that it gets to me when the series isn't that good, because frankly, a lot of Homestuck was never all that good, even before act 6. I think it's easy to build up something as really amazing after you've had so much time to think about it over and over, but I never gave myself that time (not intentionally, I'm not a psychic) and so it's just the thing that it is for me.

So to answer, you'd probably have to restart from the epilogues, have a lot more scenes in sprite mode, inject more zaniness into the narration, and shuffle some plot points around to flow better.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by harmoniousCalamity » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:49 pm

Realistically I would like to erase post game over, but assuming I have to keep all of HS properrrrrrr.

I would scrap the epilogues in it's entirety. I would have it set up so the kids are indeed helping build the new earth and figuring out what to do there. The bonus to this is that we get to see the mayor, and all of the other remaining carapaces having some on screen time and development. The kids though, being 16, don't actually have too much hand in how things are set up in run. Though they are roughly placed in areas that they would excel in acting as aids.

The ending goal of all of this development, is that there would be a combined culture, where humans, trolls, carapaces, and consorts can live together as one. It is a difficult task, but an achievable one, which would be far better than the separated 'kingdoms' that only seem to facilitate separation of the four groups. This would be the over arching theme for the entire story, but it would focus more on the kids post-war.

Which would still bring about the more adult nature of the epilogues, as kids dealing with extreme war time trauma, who only have other war traumatized people to relate with and no true proper help, because it straight up, does not exist. There would be arguments, fights, and over all distressing things to experience and read.

I do specially want Jane to explode and explain that her life too was drenched in constant trauma, that she wasn't allowed to have real life friends, she wasn't allowed to lead any sort of normal life, having to be ostracized from society because people wanted to kill her. People have tried to kill her. That her friends, while reasonably hating the condy/betty crocker, it was the only thing that she was allowed to have, the only thing she really could have, that wouldn't kill her, and it hurt not to be recognized as a least bit of fucked up as everyone else.

I want people to see and notice that John (all the englisharelyberts really, but specifically john) has chronic depression, and I want them to help, even if he doesn't want it at first. I also want to see him cry, because not once do we see him do that due to any traumatic experience he goes through, he just bottles it up and leaves it to die. I want to see him with a supportive friends and family.

I want to see Jade go absolutely insane with the fact that she finally has true freedom, no one is controlling her anymore, and no one can. She can have her friends and family, and frankly? No one can stop her.

I want to see Terezi learn that, while she doesn't need to rely on Dave and Karkat, she doesn't need to rely on Vriska either. She leaves Virska in the void. It is hard for her, but she moves on. She has friends, other friends, better friends to be with after all.

I want Aradia and Sollux make a more regular comebacks/reappear and stay entirely.

Over all I want to see the kids grow and change, and hopefully in the end grow closer together.

I also smash all the ships and leave that up in the air as of right now. No rosemary marriage specifically because them getting married at like, 16 was weird as hell ngl.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by harmoniousCalamity » Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:55 pm

Shitpost Lizard wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm
Scrap everything.
Disregard Epilogues.
Make the sequel comic a prequel about either the session that created the trolls' universe, or about the origins of the Game itself. Possibly both.
Honestly I would've enjoyed this more as well. I would love to see the theorized squiddle session and what the fuck was up with that.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by AKpen » Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:40 pm

I liked a lot of the epilogues. It wasn't perfect but idk... I would definitely change a lot of the stuff with Jake. I like what happened with John and Terezi I thought it was really nice. But some stuff was really unnecessary like how brutal a lot of it was. I think they went a bit overboard.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by SC » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:15 am

luigi wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:48 pm
I'll have more to say later but for now I would like to mention that I personally liked the epilogues, and the first chapter of Homestuck^2 was actually an amazing setup. It was everything chapter 2 and onward (not counting influencers - but that should have been part of the main story) that sucked.
I disagree with you on the epilogues (I still think they're trash even though the point is that they aren't supposed to be read), but I completely agree with you on Chapter 1 of HS^2 being extremely hype and the rest of it just paling in comparison. I was so excited for them to go back to Homestuck's roots while also experimenting with different story formats... only for the story itself to have long strings of nothing happen within it, and for June to be nowhere in sight, introduce a new character named 'Yiffy', have asshole post-retcon Vriska take up large amounts of the story for no good reason, make terrible use of the story format changes it was bragging about in Chapter 1 (i.e. showing AND telling when you could just be showing), NO FLASHES (okay there are technically two but they are so short and inconsequential to the story that they don't really count), and oops it's now in Hussie-induced limbo for months, if not years.

What a goddamn shame.
Shitpost Lizard wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:46 pm
Scrap everything.
Disregard Epilogues.
Make the sequel comic a prequel about either the session that created the trolls' universe, or about the origins of the Game itself. Possibly both.
Honestly? Yeah. I'd be fine with this. It wouldn't fix Homestuck entirely but I feel the fandom would be in a lot better shape if they just officially deemed the epilogues non-canon (and preferably also re-canonizing that one Halloween snapchat) and start HS^2 from scratch with a completely different plot. One that DOESN'T revolve around out-of-character versions of our favorite characters.

At least there are a few fan-made sequels to Homestuck, and while some of them are pretty good (and most of them are unfinished), my personal favorite has to be Kittyquest. It's so damn good that it's honestly a crime that more people haven't read it. :kitty:
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by luigi » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:27 am

I think in order to fix a sequel to homestuck one first has to fix the retcon. I'm fine with it in theory, but my biggest issue is it was just used to do a couple minor things and bring Vriska back. Then they skip over the new timeline and just end it with a cool but predictably boring Collide fight.

LE needed to be more of a villain, the Retcon needed to wrap up more story elements than it did. ^2sprites never should have happened.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by _DASHFLAME_ » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:30 am

I have tons of ideas for what could happen for a sequel on Homestuck that does use the epilogues and chapters already made. I think it is salvageable, but in order to do so, Dirk would have to start the game session now. I first need one question answered. What the hell was up with the Black Hole that Alt. Calliope created? I have no idea what it's purpose was and I kinda need an explanation on what it did.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by BrobyDDark » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:14 pm

I believe the blackhole was made to get Lord English's body to her.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by _DASHFLAME_ » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:09 pm

BrobyDDark wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:14 pm
I believe the blackhole was made to get Lord English's body to her.
I understand that but what the heck happened to it afterwards? didn't it get transferred from the meat timeline to the candy timeline because of john using retcon or something. then it spat out the John's car, vriska, Meenah, & apparently it also spat out the troll ghosts. then it either dissappeared after Aradia, Davebot, & Alt Calliope went inside of it, or it went on to the consume the entire Candy Earth C like Calliope said. so many things happened because of this one thing, that it's very hard to understand exactly what the fuck it did.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by Speg » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:26 pm

For me, I think Homestuck^2 would've been a lot better if it'd focused more on the omega kids and whatever sort of fun sburb-centered world Dirk and Rose were crafting up. It's such a shame we never even got to see where that plotline was going, because I could imagine a lot of good humor coming from a bored God designing a world crafted specifically made to beat a single game, and to spite his ecto daughter's parallel attempts at this challenge.

I dunno, if the kids of the original comic had just been allowed to be background characters, only seeing their struggles and melodramas through the lens of the new kids, it would've made things like a ridiculous cheating plotline oorrr people's sudden shifts in sexuality and gender seem so much more explainable simply because we'd be viewing it through the view of young kids who wouldn't know every single thought running through their parent's/relative's minds.

Also let Y*ffy change their name. Please. That's all

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by _DASHFLAME_ » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:58 pm

Something I forgot to say before I posted was who we expect to die from this comic. It isn't Homestuck unless a major character dies. who do you expect to die? I expect John to certainly die, I think Terezi is also going to die, along with Kanaya. I want to say Vriska will die, but the comic has definitely made it clear that Hussie has more plans for Vriska. I think one of the Omega kids (Yiffany, Harry, Tavros, Vrissy) will also die.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by luigi » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:52 pm

Yiffany should have been named Ruby, like her codename apparently was.

Not only is it just a better name, it also fits the (old) standard of the human kids having a four letter first name.

Ruby should have been her and Dave's kid before he left to go be a robot in space. This would mean her name comes (symbolically and out of universe) from the Ruby slippers and also the fact that her dad's main colour is red. This also works to eliminate Jade's dog dick from being canon.

The dynamic of Jade and Dave having a kid (that they don't keep locked up in boarding school or whatever to get kidnapped by fascist jane - all of that has to be cut and changed to something else) that Dave abandons after years of family issues would mirror that of Bro and Dave. Chances to explore the wheel of trauma, sins of the father, and inversions of what we've seen before from the striders. Also it seems fitting to give one of the tryhard masculine brodudes a female child.

This would make it so that instead of Rose doubling up and being a mom for two of them, each human player except Dirk is represented in the new cast.

Rose+Kanaya=Vrissy
Jane+Jake=Tavvy
John+Roxy=Harry
Jade+Dave=Ruby

Dirk not having offspring could relate to his motives and the themes he pokes at in his villainy. He's trying to ascend to the Ultimate Self and refuses to pass on into the void. He's driven by a sense of ego and wants all of his selves to assimilate and become one. If he had a child, he would be creating another splinter.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by luigi » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:57 pm

Oh shit also, the old cast should not have had speaking lines. They should have become faceless guardians. Instead of old john being stuffed by the fire he was a living breathing guardian. They could definitely do more with them than homestuck did, for example as an inversion of Homestuck OG, kids would have interactions with other kids guardians (Harry talking to Dave for example) but their own guardians would still usually be kept in mystery.

And instead of making the epilogues Homestuck^2 would have been better off telling that story with panels and severely abridging it. Pretty much all the John stuff from Meat was great and should have been told in panel format.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by BrobyDDark » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:13 pm

Back to the isolating feature of Homestuck: chat logs

Vriska being within punching distance of people and not getting knocked out is unrealistic desu

Also, it gave more weight to character drama- the loneliness, silence, knowing everyone is in danger. You're alone with your thoughts.

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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by luigi » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:06 pm

BrobyDDark wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:13 pm
Back to the isolating feature of Homestuck: chat logs

Vriska being within punching distance of people and not getting knocked out is unrealistic desu

Also, it gave more weight to character drama- the loneliness, silence, knowing everyone is in danger. You're alone with your thoughts.
YEAH

Shit i remember a huge thing with homestuck in the beginning was the running gag that no one could ever talk face to face. Even when they started talking face to face there was still rules like a God tier had to be in the conversation.

In the end it kinda didn't matter, which is fine because the story is wrapping up and everyone is super high powered anyway.

I went back to reread some of HS^2 cause of this thread and the earlier parts actually aren't bad the stuff with dirk and rose i think is good the long text to picture panel is fun and artsy.

I think part of the issue is the bloat of the story. If all the oldkids were guardians now then we could really focus in on the new characters without worrying about the parent drama. Instead the story should only really switch between the new earth c kids and deltritus. The two different ships for meat and candy characters is a cool idea and id be fine with keeping it if it wasn't the bulk of the story like it is now.

Oh shit it'd be a neat mirror to the scratch if the old kids are only guardians if they're the ones from candy. Since the meat ones are still pretty young they'd be sprites still, and the Candy kids would have that shellshock that the other kids got of meeting their young guardian (presumably after the candy version has died or something)

All this is even presuming we need a homestuck 2. I don't think homestuck 2 was as necessary as just ending homestuck right the first time.
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Re: ITT: Homestuck^2 Beyond Pumpkin edition

Post by _DASHFLAME_ » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:16 am

luigi wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:57 pm
Oh shit also, the old cast should not have had speaking lines. They should have become faceless guardians. Instead of old john being stuffed by the fire he was a living breathing guardian. They could definitely do more with them than homestuck did, for example as an inversion of Homestuck OG, kids would have interactions with other kids guardians (Harry talking to Dave for example) but their own guardians would still usually be kept in mystery.

And instead of making the epilogues Homestuck^2 would have been better off telling that story with panels and severely abridging it. Pretty much all the John stuff from Meat was great and should have been told in panel format.
If I'm being honest, I didn't really mind the fact that the old kids were allowed to have speaking roles instead of being the faceless guardians that we saw their parents be. I definitely understand what you mean when you say that they should be faceless guardians, but I feel like a couple things wouldn't really work if that was true. Homestuck happened when the kids were just teenagers. Homestuck^2 shows what happened to them as adults having finished the game, I feel like it's still important to see how Sburb affected their lives as they continue to grow up. Also Faceless guardians only happened to the older half of the kids that were ectobiologized. What I mean is that having Faceless guardians is essential to the players of Sburb, so I feel that instead of the Alpha & Beta kids becoming those guardians, it would make more sense for the players in Dirks game to have guardians that were faceless, because those kids are actually playing the game.

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