"Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

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"Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Speg » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:16 pm

So the patreon just released a new announcement about the future of Homestuck 2.
Tl;dr, there's not gonna be any more updates until the story is finished in full and Andrew addressed the reasons for starting the epilogues/hs2 as well as talking about some harassments the team has been getting

Here's the update, available for everyone: https://www.patreon.com/posts/future-approach-47431875

EDIT [3/9/21]: The post has since been set so only Patrons can view it. Archiving it here beneath the spoiler:
Spoiler
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Homestuck2 is going to be completed, but the Patreon will not be charging patrons anymore. The account will be frozen and no additional patrons will be accepted, but the ones currently registered are welcome to stay and receive notifications about the future of this project if the team is inclined to post any.

The plan now is to have HS2 finished, but without a regular update schedule. Previously saved Patreon funds will be used to privately commission the team to finish the story. It will all be posted at once when it is finished, and there will be no updates until this happens. I expect that it will take a long time to finish the story. This is because I am specifically instructing the team to work slowly.

I originally agreed to let this project move forward entirely based on the presumption that it would be an enjoyable experience for the team involved. It's not like I had a burning need to release a continuation of the narrative, or a formal "sequel", which is never how I viewed this arc. The project mostly came about because I picked up on the enthusiasm the original creative group had for the idea, and I also sensed that energy was being reciprocated by the particular state of the fandom at the time. But since then I've observed it's been pretty far from an enjoyable experience for the team due to the way the members have been treated by large segments of the fandom, and this pattern appeared to surface almost immediately after the project launched.

This put me in a state of conflict about the project ever since, because I like the content quite a bit. Some have lamented that it doesn't feel much like the original series, but it was never supposed to. I've never once invited anyone to work on a Homestuck project with the hope they would perfectly clone my style or approach to making content. I feel that is neither possible nor desirable. So any time I invite anyone the only real standard I want them to meet is to bring their own voice and perspective to the work even if, or sometimes especially, this results in significant departures from the expectations for the characters fans typically have. Like pretty much everything else that's been released over the last few years, I think HS2 has satisfied that purpose very well.

So there has been conflict between liking what's being done, not wanting to waste the work or disappoint those who enjoy it, and the chronic abusive treatment the staff has received while trying to work on this story. I admit I've been at a loss on how to handle this, so I've just let it ride for a year or so. To some extent it's part of any project like this, to put stuff out there and receive criticism, and I'm sure the team understood that. But I think there's a line where criticism crosses over into more abusive expressions, and I've observed this has happened way too often.

If it were just me making it, I don't think it would even occur to me to have a problem with it, because I'm so used to wild stuff coming at me from doing this for many years prior. I view attitudes toward me very differently than those I invite for collaboration. I've done this so long hostility toward me barely even registers. If I inexplicably log onto tumblr appearing to resemble some sort of extravagant clown, make a few shitposts, and I'm met with literally thousands upon thousands of comments about feet, it's pretty easy to laugh it off because that's exactly the type of stupid shit I expected to see. I've just always worked with those types of contentious interactions in a way that is inseparable from whatever strange performance is connected with the content I happen to be making at the time. But it's a very different situation when I see stuff directed at the people I work with.

The things I see that my co-creators and friends have to read are a lot more alarming. One major problem here is the people I work with are mostly women, many are transgender, many are people of color. So the stuff they get is especially vicious, because the people giving them shit usually target the sensitive features of their identities in ways they don't with me. And I'm not just talking about obvious stuff like calling them slurs or anything. It's more that I've noticed people have clever ways of using people's identities to bully them in less conspicuously bigoted ways. They always go a little harder, a little more critical, manufacturing ways of blaming them for things they had nothing to do with. Stuff you start noticing when you've seen way too much of it. Much of this stuff even crosses into physically threatening territory. Some people I work with get multiple threats every week, and it's just become a routine part of their lives while being involved with Homestuck. All the above treatment I'm referring to is not focused on a couple people, it covers everyone contributing to the full range of Homestuck projects over the last several years.

And I don't think that's what contributors were signing up for, or at least, I never wanted anyone who takes on official work to feel like it's an essential cost of participation. But I've never really known what to do about this, because it's very difficult to control fandom behavior, and if you ever try to police anyone's conduct it usually just backfires. The worst offenders out there almost see it as a challenge to go harder. So usually I leave these things alone, since the only alternative is pulling the plug on certain projects. Which is essentially what I'm doing here, while taking steps to make sure it gets finished in the background, because I really don't want to see the work wasted.

My only criteria for the completion of HS2 is that whoever is involved the rest of the way just has a good time with it, and ends up feeling like they have made a good story. If the team is happy with it, then so am I, and nothing else about it matters to me. Especially not sticking to a schedule or satisfying fandom demands, whatever those even are at this point.

Since this is a post appearing on the Patreon, I should say any reference to abusive fan behavior isn't including current patrons obviously. I can only assume anyone willing to donate to the project for this long would hold a very sincere attitude about supporting this project, which I greatly appreciate and I'm sure the HS2 team does as well. There's probably more to say about this, but I'll leave it at that for now. If there's anything to add later I may address it in an internal note to patrons (remember that if you want to remain a patron you will never be charged again). I'll consider ways to thank the patrons for hanging in there all this time and supporting the team. Maybe some free stuff. We all appreciate your support.

—Andrew
Last edited by Speg on Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Speg » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:24 pm

Oh also, they changed the "About" page on the hs2 site, now calling it an "officially commissioned story"

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by harmoniousCalamity » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:41 pm

Honestly this is unsurprising, and I don't condone the abuse or harassment slammed towards the team members in any way shape or form. Though the thing that surprised me is that Andrew said he didn't know how to get a handle on it. As if he doesn't know how his actions have hemorrhaged his own fan base to the point of near death, essentially, and that continuing in the same path would only cause...more of the same.

...I'm not sure how he didn't expect this honestly.

At least we know that hs2 is really a fan fic now???
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Speg » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:55 pm

I'm honestly most surprised at the fact that they're just gonna wait until they're finished and release it all in one big post, ala Epilogues style. At least that's what I understood from the post.
Totally not surprising they decided to can it after the response it's been getting though, and the fact like he said in the post, the reaction from the fandom wasn't exactly getting any better

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by harmoniousCalamity » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:49 pm

Speg wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:55 pm
I'm honestly most surprised at the fact that they're just gonna wait until they're finished and release it all in one big post, ala Epilogues style. At least that's what I understood from the post.
Totally not surprising they decided to can it after the response it's been getting though, and the fact like he said in the post, the reaction from the fandom wasn't exactly getting any better
Yeah same, thought honestly they would've just dropped it all together, so at least they're sticking to their guns?

But we know it's not like h2 is suddenly going to get a favorable response either once they drop it all at once...whenever that may be.

So who knows why they're doing this, maybe they think they can handle the hate/criticism wave all at once?
HC: There are twelve main classes Muse, Seer, Knight, Witch, Rogue, Heir, Page, Thief, Mage, Prince, Bard, Maid, and Lord---
YN:[yeah dude. Sylphs are fucking gay.].
HC: Shut up!

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by BrobyDDark » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:26 pm

I admire the honesty and wanting to get his crew away from threats and people being bigoted to them.

However, once the product is finished in its whole, the critics (IE me) and the harrassers (not me), will have more to say in a shorter amount of time, that will be repeated over a longer amount of time, instead of previously where they'll say something small and then forget HS^2 even updated until the next one. So unless this is one of those situations where the workers will be anonymous for awhile I'm not sure how much this will help.

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by bersona3 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:36 am

well that's... news! i dont know how much i can express my opinion on hussie without breaking some forum rules so keeping it brief: there are some bold things he is saying about the fandom in this post. i do not agree with harassers whatsoever and lumping in every critic of hs^2 with those who said the real heinous stuff is pretty lame. i also think releasing everything at once is... weird. honestly, as many problems i had with hs^2, the fact that it updated monthly (mostly) means that there was feedback, and the team could, hopefully, incorporate some of it in the work. now that's... well, not possible now.

i suspect that this isn't quite the full story. regardless though i hope those working on the comic are able to do well and take their minds off of harassment they had gotten now that they'll be a bit more away from the public... i dunno this is just a lot. welcome to the new future of homestuck
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by NAKNAKNAK » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:02 pm

bersona3 wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:36 am
the fact that it updated monthly (mostly) means that there was feedback, and the team could, hopefully, incorporate some of it in the work. now that's... well, not possible now.
I'm fine with losing that aspect. Having Ultimate Dirk act as pseudo voice of the fandom was interesting at first but over time just seemed like a cheap response to criticism and treated anything that wasn't just praise as something that just seemed bitter. Like when someone just repeats back what you said faster and in a higher pitch and acts as if it's an actual argument.
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by BrobyDDark » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:03 pm

Imo this move prolly means it's dead.

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by harmoniousCalamity » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:18 pm

BrobyDDark wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:03 pm
Imo this move prolly means it's dead.
This is what I'm thinking too? Like as much as I am invested to see how weirdly awful hs^2 can get, pulling back and doing this sort of pause just screams that it's going to die in production and fade to dust :/
HC: There are twelve main classes Muse, Seer, Knight, Witch, Rogue, Heir, Page, Thief, Mage, Prince, Bard, Maid, and Lord---
YN:[yeah dude. Sylphs are fucking gay.].
HC: Shut up!

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Shitpost Lizard » Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:09 pm

Honestly, with the current direction it was going in, I wouldn't mind HS2 dying or being put on the backburner in favor of more Hiveswap content anyway.

I have... opinions about the news post, but I can't really express them here without breaking any rules.
Reddit? Probably.
Here? No.

In short:
Spoiler
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hqdefault.jpg
hqdefault.jpg (14.51 KiB) Viewed 1274 times
You can draw your own conclusions from there.
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Generalrabogolfo » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:22 pm

NAKNAKNAK wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:02 pm
bersona3 wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:36 am
the fact that it updated monthly (mostly) means that there was feedback, and the team could, hopefully, incorporate some of it in the work. now that's... well, not possible now.
I'm fine with losing that aspect. Having Ultimate Dirk act as pseudo voice of the fandom was interesting at first but over time just seemed like a cheap response to criticism and treated anything that wasn't just praise as something that just seemed bitter. Like when someone just repeats back what you said faster and in a higher pitch and acts as if it's an actual argument.
what time? theres been no dirk for ages now lmao
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by BrobyDDark » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:25 pm

Shitpost Lizard wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:09 pm
Snorp
I dunno. Much more well-liked properties get harrassment and death threats. It's not hard to believe that the HS^2 was getting shat upon in a not-so-constructive way.

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Shitpost Lizard » Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:52 pm

BrobyDDark wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:25 pm
I dunno. Much more well-liked properties get harrassment and death threats. It's not hard to believe that the HS^2 was getting shat upon in a not-so-constructive way.
Not about that part specifically.

Just the implication that it was a one-sided exchange.

Also I doubt that it was any worse than... literally what any other thing gets.
Lest we forget that they left out credits for Hiveswap 2 entirely at first to "avoid harassment" when at least a few of the development team wasn't even asked whether they wanted that or not.
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Khiara » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:41 am

Shitpost Lizard wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:52 pm
Lest we forget that they left out credits for Hiveswap 2 entirely at first to "avoid harassment" when at least a few of the development team wasn't even asked whether they wanted that or not.
Thank God I'm not the only one who found this "avoid harassment" thing fishy and... just sounds off.
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by PurplePest29 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:38 am

Are you accussing them of pretending to get harassed? That is such a weird fucking thing to do. Have you not seen the huge amounts of hate? Ofc theyd be getting death threats and stuff. Kate alone must have gotten a few tons of it. Inevitably that amount trickles down to the entire team.

If you want an explanation, Hussie gave it. He is literally incompetent at handling this.

When people hate other properties, they dont seem anywhere near as out for blood. Not to mention, against individual people too. Larger properties dont come across as individuals at all so hate is directed at them in general
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by stark » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:08 pm

i thought the whole point of homestuck 2 was to get funds through the patreon for hiveswap 2, and they obviously aren't making money off of it anymore, so i don't get why it's still going. hussie really is his own worst enemy
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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by TH4NK YOU B3N » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:36 pm

I'll be waiting for the trend of HS^2 continuations that are just as pointless as all other HS fan adventure continuations.
only bad takes here

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by IU191 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:20 pm

LMAO

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Re: "Future Approach to Homestuck^2"

Post by Speg » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:34 pm

stark wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:08 pm
i thought the whole point of homestuck 2 was to get funds through the patreon for hiveswap 2, and they obviously aren't making money off of it anymore, so i don't get why it's still going. hussie really is his own worst enemy
I mean, even if they laundered hs2 money Happened to use the money to develop Hiveswap, I bet the team themself still cared about the comic. Just a shame it,, wasn't good. Or profitable now I suppose. Makes sense they'd turn this direction though with declining Patreon numbers if that were the only reason though 😔

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