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Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:06 am
by BrobyDDark
Yeah, she's the baddest, in a Michael Jackson's Bad kinda way.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:09 am
by PilotBlackSmith
BrobyDDark wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:06 am
Yeah, she's the baddest, in a Michael Jackson's Bad kinda way.
I mean kind of? I like Caliborn, Spades Slick, HSC and Gamzee despite them being literally the worst pieces of shit in the comic but Vriska just feels worse for some reason
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:48 pm
by melonLord
Just to throw my two cents in here: I really, really wish so much of the Vriscourse didn't revolve around trying to figure out if she's a Good or Bad person, because that is, just. Easily the least interesting and usually least productive way to analyze her. Vriska is a fascinating character, but so much of her character depth (certainly more nuanced than "she's a sadist who likes doing evil things" lol) gets swept up in circular efforts to try and triangulate her exact position on the Pro8lematicness Chart and it is just. So boring.
Like, the Tavros thing for instance. I think one aspect that gets frequently overlooked is how much of that toxic mess was rooted in Vriska's attachment of her self-image and self-worth to the legendary stories of her ancestor, and the equally legendary relationship between Mindfang and the Summoner. So many of the things Vriska did to Tavros (crippling him, constantly mocking his weakness and disability, attempting to make him "stronger", attempting to force a bizarre red romance that they both clearly didn't actually want, etc.) were either attempts to force him into that role and recreate this legacy that she's invested so deeply in, or take out her frustrations with his and her inability to do so, which of course all ties back to alternian societal customs and ideas regarding ancestral legacy, bloodcaste expectations, etc.
And that is still, I cannot stress enough, deeply fucked up! Like, just an incredibly, undeniably fucked up series of things to do to a person. I think basically everyone is on board with that. I defy you to find a single person unironically saying "no, it's good that vriska has done this, actually" ("vriska did nothing wrong" is a meme and always has been). But I am just so much more interested in dissecting why she did what she did and the many utterly fucked social circumstances around her, and how that affects her life, worldview and relationships, than I am in numerically quantifying how much of a Bad Person that does or doesn't make her.
But sometimes it feels very difficult to even start that conversation, because in some circles anything more nuanced than "Vriska is bad and if you empathize with her you should feel bad" will see you labeled a Vriska Stan, and Bad. Which is a shame, because she's an incredibly interesting character, but plinking her isolated Good and Evil actions back and forth like some kind of demented communal judgement clock in an effort to settle on her objective Did Something Wrong-ness Attribute is, at least in my opinion, just about the least interesting thing you can do with her.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:28 am
by egg
- 69ae0a06-48c8-4d14-abd7-29c41f2604e1.png (457.03 KiB) Viewed 38917 times
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:56 pm
by PilotBlackSmith
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:46 pm
by calamityCons
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:52 pm
by Ralsei
I mean it's true. Check out my signature to see why.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:00 pm
by BrobyDDark
Ralsei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:52 pm
I mean it's true. Check out my signature to see why.
Now listen 'ere-
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:56 pm
by egg
Ralsei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:52 pm
I mean it's true. Check out my signature to see why.
Did you really buy an entire .com domain just to set up a rick roll?
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:29 am
by Ralsei
egg wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:56 pm
Ralsei wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:52 pm
I mean it's true. Check out my signature to see why.
Did you really buy an entire .com domain just to set up a rick roll?
Yup.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:03 pm
by Wing
melonLord wrote: ↑Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:48 pm
Just to throw my two cents in here: I really, really wish so much of the Vriscourse didn't revolve around trying to figure out if she's a Good or Bad person, because that is, just. Easily the least interesting and usually least productive way to analyze her. Vriska is a fascinating character, but so much of her character depth (certainly more nuanced than "she's a sadist who likes doing evil things" lol) gets swept up in circular efforts to try and triangulate her exact position on the Pro8lematicness Chart and it is just. So boring.
Like, the Tavros thing for instance. I think one aspect that gets frequently overlooked is how much of that toxic mess was rooted in Vriska's attachment of her self-image and self-worth to the legendary stories of her ancestor, and the equally legendary relationship between Mindfang and the Summoner. So many of the things Vriska did to Tavros (crippling him, constantly mocking his weakness and disability, attempting to make him "stronger", attempting to force a bizarre red romance that they both clearly didn't actually want, etc.) were either attempts to force him into that role and recreate this legacy that she's invested so deeply in, or take out her frustrations with his and her inability to do so, which of course all ties back to alternian societal customs and ideas regarding ancestral legacy, bloodcaste expectations, etc.
And that is still, I cannot stress enough, deeply fucked up! Like, just an incredibly, undeniably fucked up series of things to do to a person. I think basically everyone is on board with that. I defy you to find a single person unironically saying "no, it's good that vriska has done this, actually" ("vriska did nothing wrong" is a meme and always has been). But I am just
so much more interested in dissecting
why she did what she did and the many utterly fucked social circumstances around her, and how that affects her life, worldview and relationships, than I am in numerically quantifying how much of a Bad Person that does or doesn't make her.
But sometimes it feels very difficult to even start that conversation, because in some circles anything more nuanced than "Vriska is bad and if you empathize with her you should feel bad" will see you labeled a Vriska Stan, and Bad. Which is a shame, because she's an incredibly interesting character, but plinking her isolated Good and Evil actions back and forth like some kind of demented communal judgement clock in an effort to settle on her objective Did Something Wrong-ness Attribute is, at least in my opinion, just about the least interesting thing you can do with her.
This. Just. Everything this says
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:52 pm
by TH4NK YOU B3N
Did Vriska think Tavros would sprout wings and fly if she pushed him hard enough? The idea that this terrible revenge cycle happened because Vriska was too stupid to know any better is pretty funny to me.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:57 pm
by melonLord
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:52 pm
Did Vriska think Tavros would sprout wings and fly if she pushed him hard enough? The idea that this terrible revenge cycle happened because Vriska was too stupid to know any better is pretty funny to me.
Well I never said it was a
rational thought process. A lot of it wasn't even a thought process so much as a tangled ball of frustration, inadequacy, and internalized propaganda all being influenced by an omniscient cueball pedophile.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:51 pm
by TH4NK YOU B3N
melonLord wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:57 pm
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:52 pm
Did Vriska think Tavros would sprout wings and fly if she pushed him hard enough? The idea that this terrible revenge cycle happened because Vriska was too stupid to know any better is pretty funny to me.
Well I never said it was a
rational thought process. A lot of it wasn't even a thought process so much as a tangled ball of frustration, inadequacy, and internalized propaganda all being influenced by an omniscient cueball pedophile.
well, i love it. i love that grown adults would say "i would never forgive vriska for the crime of having a crush on someone at eleven human years old."
vriska telling tavros to apologize for being disabled makes more sense in this context, because if tavros flew then she wouldn't have to feel guilty. it's insane troll logic, but uh. it's not wrong? it's just impossible.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:56 pm
by Flame_Warp
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:51 pm
it's insane troll logic,
Ba-dum-bum tcchhhh
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:54 am
by aspiringWatcher
Hoo boy the Pesterquest route did add a bunch of irons to the fire didn't it.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:27 am
by Leddy
aspiringWatcher wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:54 am
Hoo boy the Pesterquest route did add a bunch of irons to the fire didn't it.
I think the recent Pesterquest route contributed in a nice way to it. I'll be honest with you on that one.
The way Vriska is handled in Tavros route is, in my opinion, nothing short of great. It doesn't entirely villanize Vriska and it even shows that there is some point to what she does, at least in her twisted thinking. Yet even showing that, it still shows Vriska is clearly in the wrong. Even on the side where she steals the attention from his route, as soon as MSPAR agrees Vriska just ups and abandons Tavros in a way that's not backing her point up and is making her look worse, even though you chose her side.
Beyond that, what we get out of Tavros' successful route beyond that is good, but it's not necessary to this Vriscourse discussion dare I say.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 am
by TrickleJest
all vriskcourse is actually irrelevant. people dislike vriska because shes a fucking asshole and people like her because shes a fucking asshole. her charactet really is that simple
The best quote.
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:44 pm
by Katte
I like her because everything she did wrong, she did because she really wanted to be right, because she wasn't sure she was and couldn't see any other way...
Re: THE VRISCOURSE THREAD
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:19 pm
by irishTunes0701
She's okay. Not the best but is still pretty cool. However, you can't say she did nothing wrong.