The Vast Error Thread

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by burnt2ashleys » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm

CONtinuing from where I left off, I just need to get a couple more questions answered, I swear.

In the wiki, it's stated that Taz's intimidation chucklefuck is always active (as shown by the swirls in her eye), and only Albion can turn it off, but in the (as of right now) latest page and flash within, when she sees Arcjec, said swirls disappear, so what gives?

Lastly, there's this whole shebang about Khep and Gai and how they're fighting, but will it ever be answered why it is that they're fighting? What are the consequences for either one "winning"? We're told that Khep is "good" and that Gai is "bad", but there is no concrete evidence to what each party wants out of each other, and I see little effort to show that this is a conflict I (or any of the primary characters) should be engaged in in any way, shape or form. Are the 2 roommates? Did Khep leave the toilet seat open? I've heard that there are parallels between Occeus/Ellsee and Khep/Gai, but I struggle to see Gai in a negative light when compared with the best character in the comic.

Psyche, there's a third question. Who are we in the story? Fox McCloud refers to us directly, but I see no intention of touching upon metatextuality like Homestuck, and it is not an isolated occurrence throughout the story, the idea of an audience existing for Vast Error is touched upon in the conversation between Metatton and Murrit, so is that a question that should even be asked? Will this become relevant later on?

OKAY, that's all, I'd be very grateful if I could get these questions answered, thank you for reading.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by foreverFlummoxed » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:35 pm

burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
CONtinuing from where I left off, I just need to get a couple more questions answered, I swear.

In the wiki, it's stated that Taz's intimidation chucklefuck is always active (as shown by the swirls in her eye), and only Albion can turn it off, but in the (as of right now) latest page and flash within, when she sees Arcjec, said swirls disappear, so what gives?
Just from my viewing of it, I don't think it's that ONLY Albion can calm down Taz's chucklevoodoo but more she seemed to be the only one because Taz, at this point (pre-game i'm assuming) in the story, has cut her self off from practically everyone besides her moirail (Albion) and her kismesis. So Arcjec calming her down seems to indicate that Taz is finally willing to let people back into her life. Hope this clears up one of your inquiries
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
Fox McCloud
i'msorrywhat?
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by burnt2ashleys » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:27 pm

foreverFlummoxed wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:35 pm
Arcjec calming her down seems to indicate that Taz is finally willing to let people back into her life. Hope this clears up one of your inquiries
"Her chucklevoodoo holds the power of 'Intimidation' and is constantly active, shown through the purple glints in her pupils. [...] Taz is a notably angry, headstrong and determined troll who tends to not think her actions through, instead just doing what she feels is best in the moment. This way of thinking has definitely caused her more harm than good, and has seemingly ruined or put a lot of strain on her relationships with the exception of Albion, who is somehow able to pacify her seething disposition. Not even Taz really knows how she does this. "
- VE wiki entry on Taz

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
foreverFlummoxed wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:35 pm
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
Fox McCloud
i'msorrywhat?
"White Noise changes his form with the death of each planet and universe within the cycle to honor the loss of the previous species who lived with it. His current form is an anthropomorphic skeletal figure with a fox skull as a head. "
- VE wiki entry on White Noise
:cal:
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by foreverFlummoxed » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:08 pm

burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:27 pm

- VE wiki entry on Taz

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
While I always commend the people who make wikis, I also know that sometimes wikis can be incomplete/face value informative.
So while I say use a wiki for information you can't find, I also say don't believe everything you read on the internet (for example I believe that the HS wiki has an error or two on its colour template page but don't ask me what it/they are)
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:27 pm
foreverFlummoxed wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:35 pm
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
Fox McCloud
i'msorrywhat?
"White Noise changes his form with the death of each planet and universe within the cycle to honor the loss of the previous species who lived with it. His current form is an anthropomorphic skeletal figure with a fox skull as a head. "
- VE wiki entry on White Noise
:cal:
hmm... alright
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by egg » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:39 am

burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:27 pm
foreverFlummoxed wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:35 pm
Arcjec calming her down seems to indicate that Taz is finally willing to let people back into her life. Hope this clears up one of your inquiries
"Her chucklevoodoo holds the power of 'Intimidation' and is constantly active, shown through the purple glints in her pupils. [...] Taz is a notably angry, headstrong and determined troll who tends to not think her actions through, instead just doing what she feels is best in the moment. This way of thinking has definitely caused her more harm than good, and has seemingly ruined or put a lot of strain on her relationships with the exception of Albion, who is somehow able to pacify her seething disposition. Not even Taz really knows how she does this. "
- VE wiki entry on Taz

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Something that's worth thinking about is that Taz and Arcjec were in a relationship before the comic started, and she was friends with several of the other trolls as well. I wonder how she was able to maintain these relationships with Intimidation?
Spoiler
Show
The answer might be because Intimidation might just have an off switch.
Edit: In fact, if you think about it, this makes perfect sense. Notice that the wiki description does NOT strictly say that Albion turns off Intimidation SPECIFICALLY. It says that Albion can pacify Taz's DISPOSITION. Now notice how Intimidation works in the comic - if she gets really angry, it gets stronger, to the point where it can begin to affect people who are just viewing her remotely . This by necessity means that it also has the opposite mechanic - the calmer she is, the less effective it is. That means people who can make Taz happy, who can make her calm, can either turn it off entirely or make the effects so negligible that it doesn't matter.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:56 am

burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:51 am
Murrit is said to "own Dismas's soul", but what exactly does this ownership entail? Is this a mere figure of speech, or does it hold deeper significance? Another thing I'd like to know about is the status of their relationship, as the wiki says that the 2 have "physically coupled" but no such information is given in the comic itself.
We'll be getting more into this later in the comic, souls on Repiton are a big deal, so this is obviously some sort of grand gesture. But we don't really know the extent of it past what it ended up leading them to doing together. Also, it's been pretty explicit within their conversations and hinted at in the narration that Murrit and Dismas have done the soul-entangling and quadrant binding mambo (the page where he examines his anatomically correct Dismas body pillow comes to mind), which is also why Murrit is trying so hard to act his blackest when he feels the complete opposite at this point in his life. Dismas calls him out on this after he nabs him from the river with Boobdrone.

Also I don't really do anything with the Wiki, some things that I say are put on there but that doesn't really mean they're always right or even up to date. In fact last that I checked, the Wiki is very NOT up to date with where the comic is currently with almost anything.
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
In the wiki, it's stated that Taz's intimidation chucklefuck is always active (as shown by the swirls in her eye), and only Albion can turn it off, but in the (as of right now) latest page and flash within, when she sees Arcjec, said swirls disappear, so what gives?
Egg's last post hit the nail on the head, no real reason to delve deeper here.
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
Lastly, there's this whole shebang about Khep and Gai and how they're fighting, but will it ever be answered why it is that they're fighting? What are the consequences for either one "winning"? We're told that Khep is "good" and that Gai is "bad", but there is no concrete evidence to what each party wants out of each other, and I see little effort to show that this is a conflict I (or any of the primary characters) should be engaged in in any way, shape or form. Are the 2 roommates? Did Khep leave the toilet seat open? I've heard that there are parallels between Occeus/Ellsee and Khep/Gai, but I struggle to see Gai in a negative light when compared with the best character in the comic.
Yes, I mean, this is the central conflict and the basis for why everything in the comic happens. Would kind of suck to NOT reveal that information eventually. But it is deliberately vague and coated in crypticism and biased information on purpose. We know the point of The Game is to revitalize Kheparia, but no we don't know what will happen when or how that happens. We don't know what Gaiaeon's deal is other than he wants to stop what's happening and get rid of existence, to create perfection. Really, calling Kheparia "good" and Gaiaeon "bad" isn't super accurate. VE is all about the morally gray, not seeing things in black and white. Hence the static motif that blends them all together. You have to remember that White Noise is in fact a character here, he's not immune to being wrong or having his own explicit biases. Something that Lilith calls him out on, actually. People get called out in VE, if you couldn't tell.

But for right now, all we really need to know is that these are opposed and equal forces that have made everything as we know it how it currently is. Their story and how they come into play will be explained in due time, across the course of the comic.
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:04 pm
Psyche, there's a third question. Who are we in the story? Fox McCloud refers to us directly, but I see no intention of touching upon metatextuality like Homestuck, and it is not an isolated occurrence throughout the story, the idea of an audience existing for Vast Error is touched upon in the conversation between Metatton and Murrit, so is that a question that should even be asked? Will this become relevant later on?
Yes.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by TH4NK YOU B3N » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:52 am

egg wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:46 am
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:41 am
I only want to read about quadrant exposition. Is there anything like that?
Yes, there are two separate explanations about Repitonian troll quadrants, in fact.
Okay, but I only want to read those parts for philosophical reasons.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by burnt2ashleys » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:10 am

I'm very grateful for all the answers, thank you everyone for devoting the time to answering me. That said, the whole shebang about the wiki: I'm well aware that it isn't up-to-date, but there were still things, there and otherwise, that got me thinking enough to write these questions. Again, very grateful for all the answers, but I'd like to prod a little further, if I may.
We'll be getting more into this later in the comic, souls on Repiton are a big deal, so this is obviously some sort of grand gesture. But we don't really know the extent of it past what it ended up leading them to doing together.
I'm sure it will be explored, but the burning question I have about that is the term itself: Are souls in Repiton but a concept, or is it a tangible object trolls are aware of? Because, in page 417, the description is "a power all trolls on this planet believe they have dwelling strongly within them.", and thus, a "soul ownership" would be naught but a figure of speech, but the picture I'm getting here is that this is a "sign a contract with the devil" situation, hence the question.
I don't find it particularly interesting to know what the deal entails ahead of time (given you've already said you'll explore it further down the line), but are these deals, generally, things which happen normally in Repiton? If souls are "real" instead of just a collective belief, does this mean that there are methods to manipulate a troll's soul?
(Also, what about that relationship flip between dream/real selves, what uh- what about that? Can I get an answer on that or...)
(the page where he examines his anatomically correct Dismas body pillow comes to mind)
I'll be honest, I earnestly thought that was just Murrit being Murrit, it's stated that he watches over every troll 12/6 (nice number there), and Repiton doesn't have a taboo regarding nudity, so I simply chalked that up to expected behavior, nothing more, nothing less, and I thought that it'd be a bit of a reach to assume that such a simple detail would entail something that seems so significant, you know? Likewise with Laivan starting to get freaked out by Taz, I thought it'd be well within realm of reason for him to freak out over a life-and-death situation, no need for chucklevoodoos, but it appears I was mistaken, so moving on.
last that I checked, the Wiki is very NOT up to date with where the comic is currently with almost anything.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But it is deliberately vague and coated in crypticism and biased information on purpose.
What for? I hardly doubt giving away the central conflict up front would harm the story in any way, and I dare posit that this would enhance it, if anything, because then we'd know the stakes at hand! Not that I'm suggesting "give away the plot!", but telling us "Gæiæon is gonna destroy the world/kill your lusus and steal your car if you don't get into the game!" would give us (and the characters) a sense of stakes and urgency, moreso than the meteors ever could, no? After the initial threat's established, we could then move onto greater stakes, like "erasing existence for perfection", and ultimately lead to whatever motivation there is for Gæææon's actions.
As is, I don't feel like there's much to go about to care for this major and central conflict of the story. In any case, you mentioned that Gideon and Katarina are morally grey, but we're not shown as much, because the only narrator we have is White Noise, who, as you mentioned, is biased, and whatever perspective we have from characters seemingly on Gideon's side are less-than-stellar like Weird Al, Hulk Hogan, Pozzol and Edolon (the last of which I'm pretty sure killed his own lover, so that's not a good track record for your followers there), and while you could argue that Katarina has less-than-ideal solutions, the only thing I could point out is the Exemplar or Repiton itself, and even THEN that's White Noise's doing, not Katarina, and as a matter of fact, I've yet to see that one do anything to earn judgement from me. So... :insolent:

Lastly, I have to ask: Was my idea that Gideon was interfering on Murrit and Arcjec true? Because I feel like it holds up logically, but you never know. If it's true, then bravo, that's very clever.

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:36 am

burnt2ashleys wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:10 am
I'm sure it will be explored, but the burning question I have about that is the term itself: Are souls in Repiton but a concept, or is it a tangible object trolls are aware of? Because, in page 417, the description is "a power all trolls on this planet believe they have dwelling strongly within them.", and thus, a "soul ownership" would be naught but a figure of speech, but the picture I'm getting here is that this is a "sign a contract with the devil" situation, hence the question. I don't find it particularly interesting to know what the deal entails ahead of time (given you've already said you'll explore it further down the line), but are these deals, generally, things which happen normally in Repiton? If souls are "real" instead of just a collective belief, does this mean that there are methods to manipulate a troll's soul?
I don't want to expound too much here, but effectively they're kind of both? To Repitonians it's a belief system, an effective idea that is a culmination of yourself. But we also know that there is something to be said about souls being a tangible thing, as we know a part of what Occeus deals with is in the idea of returning souls from entropy utilizing Ellsee's blood. We also have lingering hints about the power of souls and how trolls can utilize them through "alchemy" with Weird Al and Sestro, so there's that too.

I think noting it as a "deal with the devil" is correct with it as much as a turn of phrase can be, given what transpired.
(Also, what about that relationship flip between dream/real selves, what uh- what about that? Can I get an answer on that or...)
We know that within Repitonian romance that while quadrant vacillation is not a taboo like recoupling after death or exceeding your two bonds with your red and black soulmate, that it is highly frowned upon within society and weaves webs of doubt within a relationship, especially those who are already coupled. Murrit waxing with red feelings for Dismas post-coupling is an extremely dangerous move on his part, something that within their society isn't "meant to happen". Their status as a black duo is already cemented with the bond. There is no chemical difference the likes of a "love bond" or a "hate bond", if Murrit and Dismas became red they wouldn't be disturbing anything with themselves besides their own feelings and societal stigma. Which on Repiton and with Soulmates is a very big deal. Maybe even the biggest deal.
What for? I hardly doubt giving away the central conflict up front would harm the story in any way, and I dare posit that this would enhance it, if anything, because then we'd know the stakes at hand! Not that I'm suggesting "give away the plot!", but telling us "Gæiæon is gonna destroy the world/kill your lusus and steal your car if you don't get into the game!" would give us (and the characters) a sense of stakes and urgency, moreso than the meteors ever could, no? After the initial threat's established, we could then move onto greater stakes, like "erasing existence for perfection", and ultimately lead to whatever motivation there is for Gæææon's actions.
If you were told that the physical personification of reality as a concept was going to decimate existence to create what they perceive to be peace and order at the very start of you being forced to play a life changing game, realistically, how would you react? White Noise has stated that the whole reason this escapade is presented as a game to begin with is to ensure a lack of mass panic with the Main 12. It's weird and tense enough as it is without the specifics being shoved down their throats.

White Noise has basically stated what Gaiaeon's goals are multiple times already, it's just vague. There is a build here, Gaiaeon IS a force within the story and we are learning more about him through his ACTIONS. That's how the entire twist before [S] Ellsee: Enter transpired to begin with. The things you're discussing have already happened, even if the characters themselves don't know about Gaiaeon in full SPECIFICALLY yet. We know he has control, and we know what he wants and that he is a threat. I'm not really sure what good putting them on display for all to see this early on would do for the momentum either.

I like to take these things one step at a time. Let's discuss meteors and the stakes of the planet that the characters currently care about before they're thrust into the abyss.
As is, I don't feel like there's much to go about to care for this major and central conflict of the story. In any case, you mentioned that Gideon and Katarina are morally grey, but we're not shown as much, because the only narrator we have is White Noise, who, as you mentioned, is biased, and whatever perspective we have from characters seemingly on Gideon's side are less-than-stellar like Weird Al, Hulk Hogan, Pozzol and Edolon (the last of which I'm pretty sure killed his own lover, so that's not a good track record for your followers there), and while you could argue that Katarina has less-than-ideal solutions, the only thing I could point out is the Exemplar or Repiton itself, and even THEN that's White Noise's doing, not Katarina, and as a matter of fact, I've yet to see that one do anything to earn judgement from me. So... :insolent:
Again, VE is a patient webcomic, it's a slow build to big reveals and not an even spread of concise information. We're only just past the end of Act 2, so why would we put all of the cards our on the table? I might be loose lipped but I'm not just going to hand these things over like steamed hams on a silver platter.
Lastly, I have to ask: Was my idea that Gideon was interfering on Murrit and Arcjec true? Because I feel like it holds up logically, but you never know. If it's true, then bravo, that's very clever.
Trust your gut until you find out.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by tajazzled » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:28 pm

haha ur such a scamp ashley

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Leddy » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:33 pm

burnt2ashleys wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:51 am
Okay, that last post was just joking about, this one's serious. For the last... 3 days or so, I've reread all of Vast Error, paying deeper attention to details and mashing them with insights I already had, and I've gotten a deeper understanding of it, although many of my points previously stated (art style, 50000 people, spoilers, et cetera) still remain. But, my outlook on certain characters HAS changed (for the better in quite some cases! Arcjec needs a kick to the shins, though), and, with more information, comes questions. So, I took to the wiki in order to get some insights, and herein I must ask some questions:

Murrit is said to "own Dismas's soul", but what exactly does this ownership entail? Is this a mere figure of speech, or does it hold deeper significance? Another thing I'd like to know about is the status of their relationship, as the wiki says that the 2 have "physically coupled" but no such information is given in the comic itself. Lastly, I'd like to directly quite the wiki:
Murrit and Dismas's relationship has been confirmed to be different for their respective dreamselfs, and rather then their waking world kismessitude, they are Matesprites. This was confirmed by Austin on the VE discord.
Disregarding the "extraneous information released in alternative outlet", how would this work? The comic says that there must be a merger between dream and real selves in order for the god-tier mechanic to work, so extrapolating here means that Dismas and Murrit's relationship has to drastically change, given that they're physically coupled (if I am to take the previous information at face-value), completely flipping from black to red after they've coupled, presumably cementing their status as kismesii. The other alternative here, of course, is of them somehow "transcending" quadrants, not unlike the Sufferer and Disciple in Homestuck. Unless one of them, oh, I don't know, dies or something before the 2 of them can flip. Although it'd be a possible solution, it still wouldn't answer the question, so I must ask here.

Speaking of Murrit: Here's some pondering, not exactly a question. Murrit says that he knows that there are 11 other trolls that HAVE to get in the game with him, including Ellsee. However, we also see that he simply doesn't want her in there, and we're not told exactly why, which makes him come off as a prick. But, he even says that he'd be willing to take the chance of having only 11 on the game, since "the odds are in the favor of the hive". BUT! We're shown why he's afraid of Ellsee, but while the details elude me (as I'm sure it is the intention), I'm more than willing to hazard a guess and say that this wasn't Ellsee's doing, but Gaiaeon showing Murrit visions of edge. But because Murrit doesn't know anything about Gaiaeon, he simply pins those visions on Ellsee, which is a win for Gaiaeon.

Following this thread, Gaiaeon has a knack for talking through televisions, and I think one can assume he's present through stylistic shifts (hey, you guys are putting art shifts to good use! Props to you guys for that, but look, that sequence where Taz is murdering people as a kid? Woulda been infinitely more effective in a better style. I know you guys have it in you, c'mon) and television distortion. Which makes me ponder: Could it be that when Arcjec is confronted by his child self, this is not an introspective moment, but Gaiaeon's interference, using Arcjec's own mind to fuck with him? If so, nice Leliel reference, bro.

I have a couple more questions, but I'm running short on time here, so I'll go back to this later. Much appreciated if I get some answers, and thanks for reading!
I can answer a number of these questions, though not over the soul bit.

Murrit and Dismas' dymanic is that they are a coupled pitch quadrant and some of their conflict comes from the fact that Murrit, even after coupling, is leaning into wanting a flushed quadrant with Dismas instead. I can't remember myself if this is actually stated in the comic, but I'm sure it is implied.

Beyond that, for the Dream Selves being different, if you pay attention in how the Dream Selves act in the sequence when you see them it's very clear that there already is a bit of a shift in the dynamics. They don't seem fully true to themselves so the relationships can differ if the people themselves do. We've actually gotten no confirmation that any of the characters in specific will go god tier at all, and I don't believe it's called god tiering in Vast Error either. I can't help but feel like this is an intentional decision especially if Austin is willing to spill the beans on it to us in the Discord, where a good bit of information does get released or commented on. I feel like we're going to get an explanation in comic if something like ascending happens to any of the characters, so we should wait for that.

That incident of why he is afraid of Ellsee seems to be the basis for why he doesn't want her in the game. He thinks she is responsible for what happened during that incident and thus is afraid of her and doesn't want her to be in the game, because he's scared of her. I understand the pondering on the rest and largely I have to agree. Ellsee was trying to make contact with the Vivifier there and clearly that gave Gaiaeon a chance to wreak havoc... and here I'll even send you a new thought. Consider the recent updates in which we see an odd choice with the characters hanging out previously and yet none of the characters remembering. We've been told not to question why this is a thing, but why no one seems to question or remember it. I think that whatever Ellsee did, allowing Gaiaeon in, affected the cast's memory. There are more points to this I'd point out if you're interested but that is for another post.

I can't comment on that last one because I myself don't have an opinion on that, but anyways.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by foreverFlummoxed » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:09 pm

With a new update comes a new beginning. Read it.

Play Snowbound Blood.
Friendship ended with Intermission Side 1
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Now Intermission Side 2 is my best friend
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by sparten4ever92 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:45 pm

Man, it's been a year since this has been active...I hope I don't get in trouble for necroing it. Just wanna rekindle discussion for my favorite fanventure.

Just wanted to say I love the comic and all the worldbuilding. Repiton is a fascinating world and I really like all that's been done to build it throughout the comic and in SBB. Not to mention all of the fantastic characters and character designs.

Admittedly can't stand the community though. The discord server is something of a toxic echo chamber and as necessary as it is claimed to be, I can't recommend going there under any circumstances.

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