Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

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thorondraco
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Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by thorondraco » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:05 pm

Basically at some point roxy randomly says that 'i am pretty sure this is 90% imagination' when referring to alchemized food. It seemed like a bit of an odd statement considering it seems like everything else is real real.
But literally moments ago i realize WHY that may be the case.

Alchemiter cannot create living and or once living matter in a 'real way' because that could create a loophole. If you can create organic matter with an alchemiter you can create a new version of yourself, create new life.

An ecto cloning machine CAN create organic life. It can't create food far as we know but it can create life. But only via replication. So one could create wheat for bread but not the sandwich.

What the acto alchemizer thus allows is the spontaneous generation of organic matter, and the mutation of said matter.

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syrupsand
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by syrupsand » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:19 pm

BIG BRAIN
Why the frick can i not classpect myself 100%

thorondraco
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by thorondraco » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:23 pm

syrupsand wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:19 pm
BIG BRAIN
Hoogest brain even.

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Cr0ssCutter
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by Cr0ssCutter » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:59 pm

I think this is also supposed to allude to the fact that alchemy in homestuck kind of works like
mixing up ideas and concepts, rather than actual matter. Like the ideas that can make up one object are many, there was a whole bit about that when rose was drunk and talking about apples. I think it's also appropriate that Roxy is the one pointing out the "realness" of alchemized objects, because of his relationship with Void and the existence of things. After all that's how the matriorb was replicated too.

thorondraco
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by thorondraco » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:10 pm

Cr0ssCutter wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:59 pm
I think this is also supposed to allude to the fact that alchemy in homestuck kind of works like
mixing up ideas and concepts, rather than actual matter. Like the ideas that can make up one object are many, there was a whole bit about that when rose was drunk and talking about apples. I think it's also appropriate that Roxy is the one pointing out the "realness" of alchemized objects, because of his relationship with Void and the existence of things. After all that's how the matriorb was replicated too.
I don't think it was even replicated. I think that Is the very matriord. Roxy simply removed the void to its existence and simultaneously stole it through the void and and stole the void from it.

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SteperOfTheLongEarth
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by SteperOfTheLongEarth » Sat May 23, 2020 6:04 pm

thorondraco wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:05 pm

Alchemiter cannot create living and or once living matter in a 'real way' because that could create a loophole. If you can create organic matter with an alchemiter you can create a new version of yourself, create new life.
Image

Dave's brain would like a word with you...

And wasn't that the whole premise of AR?
Current project: Passing Classes :distraught:
THEN:
>Terezi: Reminisce
Chapter 9-10 :candy: :kitty:

thorondraco
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by thorondraco » Sat May 23, 2020 6:22 pm

SteperOfTheLongEarth wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:04 pm
thorondraco wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:05 pm

Alchemiter cannot create living and or once living matter in a 'real way' because that could create a loophole. If you can create organic matter with an alchemiter you can create a new version of yourself, create new life.
Image

Dave's brain would like a word with you...

And wasn't that the whole premise of AR?
Not a 'real' brain it would seem if food is 'fake'/
He never even managed to create his brain either, it was too expensive.

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SteperOfTheLongEarth
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by SteperOfTheLongEarth » Sat May 23, 2020 10:25 pm

thorondraco wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:22 pm
SteperOfTheLongEarth wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 6:04 pm
thorondraco wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:05 pm

Alchemiter cannot create living and or once living matter in a 'real way' because that could create a loophole. If you can create organic matter with an alchemiter you can create a new version of yourself, create new life.
Image

Dave's brain would like a word with you...

And wasn't that the whole premise of AR?
Not a 'real' brain it would seem if food is 'fake'/
He never even managed to create his brain either, it was too expensive.
But the point is that you COULD do it with the base systems.
Image
Dirk did, and again, Dirk did make a captcha of his own brain to make AR

And another example:
Image
There is no way that casy WOULDN'T have a code would there? Unless it turned into one of those dumb things where you couldn't read it like with the game:
Image
Image

Then again, they have a whole machine to get around it....
Image
Current project: Passing Classes :distraught:
THEN:
>Terezi: Reminisce
Chapter 9-10 :candy: :kitty:

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luigi
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by luigi » Sat May 23, 2020 10:30 pm

Yeah that line about the alchemy food tasting empty and fake kind of throws a wrench in the idea that these are Heavenly Machina able to create anything from pure grist.
tumut

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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by overThinker » Sat May 23, 2020 11:05 pm

as for alchemy's inability to create living matter or complete clones of players, i think it would be reasonable to infer that every alchemizable object is already predetermined by paradox space (suggested by the finite number of captcha codes), as is the rest of homestuck's cosmos. creating an identical, fully organic, able to grow, and conscious copy of a player would create a paradox unless paradox space had planned for it in the first place, which is why i think we've yet to see this happen. paradox space's inner workings have already been shown to be completely arbitrary; i believe the same is true for alchemy's.
Image

thorondraco
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Re: Just realized soemthing about a line in chapter 3

Post by thorondraco » Sun May 24, 2020 2:42 am

luigi wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:30 pm
Yeah that line about the alchemy food tasting empty and fake kind of throws a wrench in the idea that these are Heavenly Machina able to create anything from pure grist.
At least anything organic. It IS part of what is allowing Dirk and rose to create lifeforms.

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