The Vast Error Thread

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burnt2ashleys
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by burnt2ashleys » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:09 pm

Third and last post, like I said I would.
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You (you) might be wondering where it is that I got the information regarding this particular webcomic setting's population? That's an interesting question, and whose answer I got, not from the comic, but from extraneous sources (other people who I've discussed VE with, and a video from the "optimistic Duelist" YouTube channel). Why am I calling this forth? Amongst the problems that I've personally seen that the narrative is afflicted by, this "tell the readers of something, but don't show them" problem is only exacerbated by the spoilers and extra information that are only accessible if you're either in the Vast Error Discord server or some other similar place where a member of the staff is present. Simply put, some information that could (and arguably should) be within the comic simply isn't there, such as, like I wrote at the end of the second post, events and plans which we, the readers, are not privy to. Not being able to fully grasp the comic and having to resort to extraneous resources, on my view, spells one of two things: Either the work is inherently complex and obtuse, and extraneous resources are needed to comprehend it (a piece of literature that recalls/references other, older literature, or made intentionally complex as exploration of the medium, like James Joyce's Ulysses, for example), or it is lacking in its storytelling aspect. Perhaps, the comic will answer these questions in the future (and here's hoping!), but in my current analysis, there's information that is required for a better experience that isn't provided in the given material.
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Addendum: Someone replied to my post, so I'll address that:
bigchalupa wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:00 am
buddy, pal, my friend, this....... really comes off as very on the fence. and also is kind of confusing? vast error looks too much like homestuck, fan adventures should either look different or look like homestuck?????? [...]
I *did* say so up there in the post: "I don't exactly mean to say "wow this sucks dick, you people read this? lmao, lol, and dare I say it, rofl.", but rather point out some things I found worth talking about since I first heard of it." I also said that I'm personally okay with the style, but I feel that it could be even better if the art took greater risks, that's all.
Of course I'm going to be on the fence about this, I said as much and I'll elaborate as to why: I simply do not have all the information to claim something so ludicrous as "Vast Error NEEDS to be hyperrealistic in its art style and revolutionary in its prose, OR ELSE!", because that's just shortsighted of me! I have my own personal opinions which I have, and will always, point out whenever I write them here. Furthermore, I am not aware of the situation that the creative team behind Vast Error is currently in, and I shan't dare guess, under pain of making asses out of me and others.
bigchalupa wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:00 am
[...] i dont really think that the style of vast error matters too much in the long run - the whole thing with it is that its supposed to make you think its going to be like homestuck alternia at first but then as you read on you realize its not, that's a big part of early VE. sure, in the future they could drift off into another style but, take it from me and other adventures out there: style shifts tend to be jarring and can alienate a lot of your audience if you do it with little to no reasoning beforehand. its why the gif of the styles changing in the more recent VE updates are so out of place and unnerving, the art shifts do that! its cool and visually interesting imo [...]
Quite right, miss chalupa! That is why I added an example at the end, there! I'm Good, I'm Gone does an art shift quite well, hence why I used it to argue about VE's case.
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Lastly, would I recommend Vast Error? My answer would be "depends", because it certainly isn't for everypony. Do you want more Hivebent? Felt like the dancestors were good and underutilized? Wish for an alternative to Alternia's hyper-violent, assholery culture? Long pesterlogs and a tinge of sadstuck? Do Weird Al, Simpsons, Spiderman (the Raimi trilogy, of course) and Neon Genesis Evangelion references tickle your fancy? Then Vast Error is for you. But if you prefer something on the likes of Problem Sleuth, then you might be inclined to look for other fanventures (though, the old adage rings true: Don't knock it 'til you've tried it).

Post-scriptum: Y'all talk way too much about furries, yo. :olliesouty:
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by rookie1978 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:06 pm

Darth_Energon wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:50 pm
I don't like Vast Error very much, and yes, I have read all of it.
sums up my feelings about it, but to be fair i havent seen whatever the recent updates are so maybe ill give it another glance-over :lime:
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:04 pm

Hey folks, I'm currently inundated at the moment. But I have been reading everything in here, and I have been enjoying going through what you guys have to say. Regardless of if it is negative or not.

I do have my OWN things to say about these posts. Which I will probably be responding to once I have a minute later tonight. I have a plate of ribs calling my name and that takes precident first and foremost.

Also, next update is just about done and should be posted on Friday. There's a neat little flash game in it too. So look forward to that.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Barraskewda » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:23 pm

Glad to see you've been reading the thread, Austin. it's good to be able to acknowledge critiques that the people have for you and I'm interested in seeing your response.

more importantly

Please tell me if Cooperi is single, Austin. Moms need love too I can provide it to her please. I beg of you
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Eromancery » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:28 pm

While Austin does give a lot of worldbuilding and stuff through other sources, (discord, tumblr, twitter...) a lot of it is either A: irrelevant to the main plot and so wouldn't be mentioned at all otherwise or B: it's going to come up in the comic later since it's unfinished and all that jazz
Also like
don't take repiton so seriously, it's not gonna be subject to hard science or logic. Hot dogs are plants and milk and soda come from the ground. It's inherently ridiculous
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A juggalo
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Barraskewda » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:28 pm

Eromancery wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:28 pm
it's not gonna be subject to hard science or logic. Hot dogs are plants and milk and soda come from the ground. It's inherently ridiculous
I agree and disagree with this post. Yes it IS good to know how silly your world is and to not take it seriously as a result, however there is an obvious limit and world-building still should be taken somewhat seriously even if the world isn't serious. You can make something goofy like hot dog plants make complete sense if you just put a bit more oomph into writing the hot dog plants, or doing stuff WITH the hot dog plants. Basically what I'm saying is, yes it's silly but silly isn't an automatic write off for wanting more world-building
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:53 pm

Personally I think Vast Error has a really big "tell not show" problem. The characters keep telling us about all of these important things about eachother and the world they live in which takes up a lot of word count space, when it could be easily as effective if they just showed us what was going on instead.
"Show don't tell" is a concept of storytelling that is mired in vague terms related to saying it that don't really give much credence to how it should properly be done. The idea is novel, but there is a time and a place for it to happen. And more often than not, it happens after a certain point of identity has been reached developing the core characters and ideas of a work. Vast Error has just left what I would like to call it's "honeymoon period", where you have since gotten acquainted and perhaps you could even say mentally consumated with the work in some way or other. Granted, normally you should know everything about a person before marrying them but hey, I don't tell you how to live your life.

Over 1000 pages wouldn't necessarily be called "early" for almost anything else, but we all know that isn't how these kinds of comics tend to roll. Act 2 was effectively the end of introductions to every major facet that will be in play later. Not just for the cast, but Repiton and it's importance to The Game as well, something which we learn is important to the comic and the overall purpose of the plot as a whole. Alternia was a disposable planet in Homestuck, as was Earth. And a majority of the lore, worldbuilding and structure that came with these places came directly THROUGH dialogue and description more often than not, at least in Alternia's case and ESPECIALLY in the case of SBURB/SGRUB and its mechanics. Are setting these things up telling and not showing? Do we really have time to blow through the factories and blunder around LOMAM when we have a cast of twelve lovely fantroll-trope centric trolls, on top of an ensemble cast of side-characters to meet? All of whom, regardless of how intense, are relevant to the stakes at hand? I don't really think that's a very good use of the comics time.

So if Act 1, Intermission 1 and Act 2 of Vast Error are more "tell don't show", this is ultimately a byproduct of us still being anywhere from a little over a fifth to a seventh done with the comic. Really more like 3/12ths done. It's a standard explanation, set up and payoff, just in longer form. You could boil this down to something like pacing issues or an overbloated cast then, perhaps, but if the comparison is one that HAS to be made; the kicker is that VE is more driven as being a character-centric story than Homestuck was initially concepted as. This shows through the slower burn of revealed plot points and character dynamics that you find out as the story goes on. It asks you to be patient with it, and some people just won't be. VE is a pondering mans comic in this sense. Less patient types should probably grab their coat and exit the Bart Simpson themed fuckhouse we run this joint in.

Homestuck sort of shows you its cards early and uses that to keep a forward momentum. But I think many people forget that the whims of weird plot shit pulled from Andrew at will directed Homestuck more than its cast naturally moved the story forward, and while it may very well have many nice bits of succulent story juice in there, these examples usually come from Act 4 and Act 5 Act 2 when it comes to the major beats. Homestuck was never really concerned with pacing itself out in typical fashion. For example, Intermission 1 is arguably the funniest section of the comic but ultimately its purpose is to set up a character we barely know in the Beta session through a surrogate from the Beta TROLL session and name drop a villain we know nothing about for over another act and a half. And while sylladex shenanigans and house exploration and mechanic fiddling to the max is fun and so are all of the goofy jokes, could you not make the argument that they are, in fact superfluous with how long they go on for? Could you not say that there could have not been more time spent making the worlds feel realized and the characters more multi-faceted through the comics run?

Is there not an argument to be made that Homestuck very well could have and maybe SHOULD HAVE spent some of its time TELLING you about itself, its world and well over half of its cast more than it did to give you a formal and deeper connection instead of SHOWING you more silly jokes and plot detours?

These are questions without clear cut answers, and I'm not going to say VE is the golden god of its current standing and is secretly always right about itself. There's a reason why we look into media and how it's formatted. VE is more unconventional in this sense and arguably could be improved (something I have been working on since the start until now). We just have our reasons, and I'm glad I get to talk about them.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:17 am

I don't know how I feel about having to use external tools to make a story more legible. Usually you should only have to do this when translating old sumerian epics from worn, cracked cuneiform tablets.
Quirks are probably the biggest VE gripe that I fully understand at all times but also elect to do absolutely nothing about in the comics natural format. A big point of the comic is the action of obfuscation, whether it be something abrasive visually or through the inherent bias of the cast. But you can place this in two different catagories: characters that are hard to read on purpose, and characters that are hard to read by proxy.

Murrit is hard to read on purpose, he purposefully types in inconsistent mashes of shorthand and slang because he literally does not want to be read as any consistent personality. Dismas is hard to read by proxy, his speech is fine but how his quirk functions spaces out words and sentences. A's and V's together? Forget about it.

Really this happened because:

1. Andrew took all the good and interesting quirks.

2. Me and Heather can read all of the quirks just fine and we didn't intend for VE to become this popular, so we weren't really thinking of others. We made the story for us and the quirks are probably the biggest realization of this fact that has stuck to this day.

3. I would much rather have a quirk that's hard to read but represents something about a character than a quirk that's easy to read but says nothing about a character.

That being said, quirks are also probably about as subjective as it comes. I once knew a guy who hated KARKATS quirk just because of how much it spaced logs out and made him scroll more than he already had to. This is why I recommend the HomeUnstuck extension to people, because everybody handles these things differently and it's nice to have these tools on hand. Also the programmer works with us and they are great. Shout outs to Cryo.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Barraskewda » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:28 am

First of all thank you for the clear and concise response, I appreciate the transparency. I've found myself agreeing with a lot of the points you've made. however one thing stood out to me, not that I disagree with this I just want to talk about it a bit more.
[
Is there not an argument to be made that Homestuck very well could have and maybe SHOULD HAVE spent some of its time TELLING you about itself, its world and well over half of its cast more than it did to give you a formal and deeper connection instead of SHOWING you more silly jokes and plot detours?
Really all it depends on is what you yourself WANT the comic to be. You said up above that you see Vast Error as a more character-driven story than homestuck was on conception, but HOW much more, if that makes sense. I've noticed that while the character drama has been taking more of a front row seat(which is all well and good and I am personally enjoying it.) I feel as though the silly jokey jokes will take somewhat of a further back seat. Which is also all well and good but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sad by the backseat it did take because I find myself laughing at a lot of the jokes you do tell, you and the team are funny people so I hope you can find a really nice blend of humor and drama.

All in all Vast Error is a really good experience that I do think is worth a read, however I feel like it could get lost in the character driven story it really wants to tell, which could or couldn't lead to a different reading experience than what I entered the comic for, but then again, who is to say for real what could happen. Things change all the time and I'm not adverse to staying on the wild ride for just a bit longer.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:49 am

Really all it depends on is what you yourself WANT the comic to be. You said up above that you see Vast Error as a more character-driven story than homestuck was on conception, but HOW much more, if that makes sense. I've noticed that while the character drama has been taking more of a front row seat (which is all well and good and I am personally enjoying it.) I feel as though the silly jokey jokes will take somewhat of a further back seat. Which is also all well and good but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sad by the backseat it did take because I find myself laughing at a lot of the jokes you do tell, you and the team are funny people so I hope you can find a really nice blend of humor and drama.
I think this mostly stems from my own personal ideals of what I wanted Homestuck to be from the start, and in a sense that's how I like to play around with how VE is. With what me and Heather feel Homestuck could have been from our own perspective. A majority of VE's metatextual aspect draws from this as well, the fan expectations of how the work SHOULD be rather than what it really always has been. Hence the sort of inherent irony in utilizing aspects of Homestuck and the well known concepts presented in its fanbase.

There's a lot of untapped potential deep within the well of genuine drama AND comedy you can pull from these concepts, but I think VE always favors itself as an introspective piece balanced between being a love letter deconstructing/reconstructing the concepts of it's source material, and the surface level character drama that utilizes trolls and those same concepts to commentate on broad ideas such as nostalgia, mental illness, letting go of the past and personal betterment.

The comedy will always be there, and in some instances I plan to put it front and center. There's a section of the comic I feel that old school MSPA fans are going to be really happy with coming up very soon. But VE is the yang to HS's yin in the sense that it is drama over comedy juxtaposed against a series that was always comedy over drama. Personal versus impersonal. The "anti-Homestuck" as some have dubbed it.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Barraskewda » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:58 am

But VE is the yang to HS's yin in the sense that it is drama over comedy juxtaposed against a series that was always comedy over drama. Personal versus impersonal. The "anti-Homestuck" as some have dubbed it.
That's a good way of putting it I feel. I also feel like most of my doubts have been put aside for now, so all I can really do now is wait for updates and see how things play out.

also please tell Cooperi I love her thank you.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by ANCIENT_HOLIDAY » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:13 am

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Tarty_ » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:31 am

Well... This has blown up a lot more than I expected, and I'm glad it's remained largely civil in spite of what might be otherwise clear sore points. Nice to see some old faces. Unfortunately I don't have that much to contribute given most of my actual criticisms (particularly the topic of population and how civilization on Repiton works... or intentionally doesn't) have largely been echoed by Ashley or Barra, not entirely surprisingly given I know the guys. Still, eyes on this thread and I might be able to contribute some thoughts in the future that haven't already been posted in a far more verbose and in-depth manner.

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by austinado » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:19 am

So this is a long one, so long that I don't really feel that I can talk about every single aspect within these three posts without either repeating something that either I or somebody else has already said. So I'm going to kind of half-cherrypick the bits that I feel provide new information that I can comment or expand on further. Please take my responses to others thus far in consideration with this one.

Admittedly, a lot of these questions felt a bit rhetorical, like there wasn't really much to be stated with it. This isn't taking the piss out of you, but it does make reading these posts kind of hard to navigate in terms of where the actual point lies. Let it be known that I'm trying my best, here.
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:44 pm
So, why, then, is the story subscribing to Homestuck's style when there is no reason for such limitation, and the story would so greatly benefit from changing it (and here I remind you that this would also solve the dissonant lusii/denizen designs, killing a multitude of birds with a pebble)?
You sort of said it yourself, and while I have explained the intricacies of why VE's art is the way it is in some manners earlier in the thread. The question still reamins of why we confine ourselves to this general style when there is really no need for us to do so and we have since proven that we can do much more? There's a long answer and a short answer for this but I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be doing a lot of typing here so I'm going to opt for the shorter answer.

From the very update you took that picture from, it's disjointed styllistically to an off-putting degree. All at the service of an eternal guardian's power and the view of a television set. Why do you suppose this is? Even Homestuck itself has a fluid art form, taking to Andrew's whims. Granted them being ANDREW'S whims is an important distinction, but within Homestuck itself these styles have been noted as being "symbolic renderings". It may very well be the case, that the use of this style falls under similar circumstances. That what we currently view the comic as is not how things ACTUALLY ARE, but how we are "meant to be seeing" them. But that choice wasn't made by you. It's something to consider moving forward.
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:54 pm
Why trolls? A simple question, for sure, but let's elaborate. As far as I've ascertained, there has been no unique characteristic of the Homestuck trolls that has been needed for Vast Error. The design could have been swapped out, the race's name changed, and I'm almost sure that this wouldn't have impacted the story and its themes or message. Alternian trolls' most discerning characteristics are the designs (which are easily recognizable thanks to Andrew's artistic skills), and its society, which yields unique dynamics between characters, the former which isn't needed here (hence the question), and the latter is null given the setting is built from the ground up (more on that in a bit). Other characteristics, like quadrants, dynamics between castes and psionics are also reworked, so why still take from Homestuck when there is more benefit to be found in originality (both in the story as well as its art)?
Trolls were chosen because it gives an accessible idea for those who associate themselves with Homestuck to jump onto, while also allowing us a frame of reference to change and work into our own work and the isolated universe they are the only current inhabitants of. VE is a commentary on Homestuck and the ideas and works of itself and Homestuck's fanbase. So taking what was at the time one of the most malleable aspects of the comic, as well as undoubtedly the most popular, and utilizing them for our own benefit was a no-brainer. Not doing this at least to some extent would pretty much undermine the entire operation. We could have used fankids or cherubs, but trolls are objectively the reason people came to this comic in droves.

We could have also gone for a completely original species, or we could have stuck to the Alternian framework, but frankly these are characters made from the basis of fantroll tropes. Changing them into something besides trolls kind of defeats the purpose of even doing an MSPA at all with this idea in play. And if we wanted to stick to the Alternian frame, there's more than enough of that floating around in a sea of canonical and dubiously canonical official work. Not to mention there is a lot of ideas with trolls that frankly don't come to pass, especially when you consider how many ideas that fans (including us) have had about them over the years that were simply never right to begin with, or were never expanded upon or integrated in a meaningful way. Repiton, while fundamentally different, allows another way to look at the species and what it could have been. We even run with the joke that trolls are "nothing but gray humans" that people have claimed pretty much since forever.

Also, Beforus DID exist, so it's not like the concept is ENTIRELY new either. We just crank it up a notch or twelve.
The second point I'd like to address is the setting: 50000 people? Really? That's less than most population centers on Earth! That's not enough inhabitants to do anything! Really, I don't think advanced civilization is possible with only 50000 citizens. Human civilization has never dipped that low, for crying out loud! How many of these trolls are working class? Or is everything automatized?
We know through context and also through Snowbound Blood (the canonical prequel visual novel) that it's essentially a mix of the fully automized processes and sci-fi/alien bullshit and the remaining trolls who create and ensure they function, hired and spread by Corporate to keep everything in check. 50,000 is dreadfully low for an entire planet, but we also know through these sources that it was a slow decline through the ages and that Repitonians have evolved and found methods of handling things feasibly to compensate for the drastic population loss.
In Homestuck, you're not told how the relationship between the kids start, but you're shown the dynamics between them, and they function well enough that you care for them, even though you don't really know much about them. This is not the case for Vast Error. The relationship between the first 2 characters introduced, Arcjec and Tazsia, is only hinted at in the (arguably unnecessary) repitonian quadrant section of the story, and we still have relationships which have simply not been shown thus far, but that we are told exist. Because of this, we enter "Eight Deadly Words" territory ("I don't care what happens to these people"), the dynamics between the characters aren't interesting enough to make a lasting impression (not only on me, but on others I've talked to about VE).
Firstly, I wouldn't call the expansion on Repitonian romance to be at all unnecessary. It's the next logical step of the original Homestuck joke that quadrants played with (I.E that character shipping always falls into these specific catagories), an exploration at the fandom tinged concept of "OTP's" and "Soulmate AU's", as well as generally being a deeper look at how these trolls concept love and sexuality (specifically the enforced old hussian rhetoric that all trolls are bi/pansexual without exception) in a manner that can be allegorical and doesn't have to cough up the usual terminology to make a point. It's probably one of the most important facets of Repitonian worldbuilding as it currently stands, and I don't think the comic would be the same without it.

As far as cast relationships on the whole are concerned? Functionally, VE is not about the constant organic build when it comes to how its characters are presented and how beats of their stories play out, and if that isn't your cup of tea, that's more than fine. But the way you phrase it here makes it sound as though it's lesser to Homestuck in this capacity. A major component of the comic is comparing the relationships of the cast as they are now at 17-19, to how they were when they were younger, the ripe age of 13. The most formative years of your life, according to the source material. Obviously, their relationships have long since been established and changed in real ways, and a part of the reason it should be engaging is to find out the extent of how deep that rabbit hole goes. How the cast feels about these changes before, during and after the fact throughout the comics run. Finding other questions and ideas that can be gleaned from the information you get as the comic goes on and you learn more, then retroactively looking at old pieces of information with new context.

Questions in VE are designed to be questions, it's purposefully told in a manner that doesn't allow you to see things that happen in any consistent pace. It's all about seeing something, and then a question about it gets answered. Which leads to more questions, and then eventually it gets answered too. Which then, in of itself, spurs even more questions. It's a proliferation of intrigue, as a friend of mine once said. I like the term.

Speaking of answering questions...
burnt2ashleys wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:09 pm
You (you) might be wondering where it is that I got the information regarding this particular webcomic setting's population? That's an interesting question, and whose answer I got, not from the comic, but from extraneous sources (other people who I've discussed VE with, and a video from the "optimistic Duelist" YouTube channel). Why am I calling this forth? Amongst the problems that I've personally seen that the narrative is afflicted by, this "tell the readers of something, but don't show them" problem is only exacerbated by the spoilers and extra information that are only accessible if you're either in the Vast Error Discord server or some other similar place where a member of the staff is present.
This was brought into question earlier in the thread by this nice guy who I definitely want to invite to my next birthday party. I'm sure he's great with kids too.
Darth_Energon wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:01 pm
I'm amazed how loose they are with spoilers, honestly. It's kinda sad.
This is true, I do give a lot of extra details on other platforms such as the VE Discord, Tumblr, Twitter, the VE Team/VEMT, and to the people I peer review the comic with. I already did a big answer about why I think "show don't tell" is kind of a dumb rule on the whole, so lets just focus on the fact that I say things that technically aren't in the comic yet.

A lot of what I say on these various other avenues are more extrapolation than any legitimate spoilers. Many things in this comic don't have a reason to come up naturally because they either will only be mentioned much later or they simply just don't matter. Why did I give away the dream sways and classpects of the main cast? Well, you all know dreamselves and all the various classpects exist and there isn't anything new stirring that specific pot. How they're handled is much more important than the fact that they exist here. Why did I tell people the names of the ancestors? Well, they're just titles and they don't really say too much about who they are or what important shit that they did. Why did I talk about Repiton's population and how reduplication works? Because I don't think we're going to get a major debriefing on it in canon, therefore, paratext is the answer. (Also it WAS mentioned and explained in Snowbound Blood, a lot of things are mentioned in Snowbound Blood.)

As for things that don't fall under this specific purview of the situation, it also stands to reason that a majority of what I say, even as word of god, isn't always the truth! There have been multiple times where I simply play up things for jokes, omit key details, smother everything in indulgent crypticism or just flat out fucking lie. The reader hostility of VE is another major component of itself, from the questions of how close it is to Homestuck proper to the quirks of the cast, to the interpretation of how and why the events happened. I may have authority and the means to sway reader opinion, to influence the people at large, but the question is really if you should even believe me.

I will say however, that despite the subtext always being there; the information that Arcjec and Ellsee are as close to siblings as trolls can feasibly be was tactical on our end. The less incest porn I know exists? The better. If that costs us a twist (which VE isn't focused on anyways), so be it.

I'm honestly no better a source of information THAN the comic proper, or any other fan. Because my thoughts and opinions change all the time, and I have my own biases that others may not agree with. It's up to the reader what they want to look up and what they want to take from this story, regardless of where or what it is. There is only so much responsibility placed on the VE team in that regard. You may call this unprofessional, but until I sign some proper documents and start making a salary? I have absolutely no obligation to keep quiet. Plus, you try sitting on a comic for almost a decade and keeping your lips shut the whole time. There is no reason for us to be as uptight and secretive about VE as Andrew was with HS. Honestly, if anything, I think it's been very good for us to talk this much while we have the chance.

VE is a comic that is focused more on it's archival ends than its serialized means. But in doing this, there has to be things that keep serialized readers invested. The comic alone is enough for thousands of readers out there, but I don't think it's a crime or a blemish on the record of the comic to expand upon what exists and what's to come.



I think that about wraps everything up. I've actually really enjoyed being on the Forums again thus far, it feels like the first time I've been able to actually respond to critique in a manner that isn't either on the spot or taken out of context. Which I'm sure some of these posts will surely be in the future regardless. I think I just like listening to myself talk, lmao.
Last edited by austinado on Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:27 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Makin » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:32 am

I really, really, really like the music of Vast Error! :rorb:

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by PilotBlackSmith » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:02 am

I read like 400 pages I think
I didnt like the drama and most characters but the art and production value are stellar
But its NOT FUNNY so it gets a 5/10


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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by classpectanon » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:06 am

Remember to keep things respectful, y'all.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Sylandrophol » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:10 am

hot take but sova and albion should kiss

i love them,
all i do is be thembo, love girls, listen to radio head, drink soda, eat hot chip and lie
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check out my music!

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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by egg » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:11 am

The clear love and care that the author seems to put into this weird troll comic that is shown through their detailed and concise replies to criticism without any form of strawmanning or underhanded tactics whatsoever have taught me that there is probably value in this, and so I will begin reading it.
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Re: The Vast Error Thread

Post by Leddy » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:20 am

I think I should finally comment on this one, I did point out the Homeunstuck thing but still.

I've actually really enjoyed Vast Error for what it's given, the focus on characters and explaining the world and giving out these little bits of information we'd not otherwise get suits a very good niche for me, as it's a lot of what I wanted and was most dissapointed about not getting in Homestuck, I don't want another Beta Troll scenario where half the cast is irrelevant or one dimensional, they're not only making the cast interesting, but they've got an entire host of side characters that are interesting or intriguing in their own rights, it's been fantastic so far!

I was able to enjoy it heavily from an archival perspective and now get to benefit from the serialization of it in ways that very well tune to what I like out of a story. I also really enjoy reading through all of Austinado's posts and getting the insight of his perspective. It's nice to have transparency from a creator on something I enjoy and want to learn more about, those small tidbits of information that are given out that won't be covered in the story? I'd die for something like that to be done for Homestuck, to give us more insight and more development for characters and things. While it's not everyone's slice of cake, I personally really enjoy the subtle commentary on things like Homestuck and the trolls in general.

Not even mentioning how the art and music is incredibly commendable and everyone who I've seen who dislikes the comic at least can say there is serious effort put into it. I've really enjoyed the comic so far, so Austin if you are reading this thanks for making and creating it I can't wait for that next update!

I really hope the forums can be used for this more often, to communicate with creators in a good way with some constructive criticism both of good and bad quality.
:mutie:

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Roxy, Jade, and Kanaya are the best Homestuck characters /thread

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