Page 1 of 1

Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:13 am
by PurplePest29
First of all, he did nothing wrong within candy. He had gotten this whole healthy ass kismesis with Jane up and running and was spreading his religion (which turned out to be *true*, by the way).
Just a good working troll member of society.
All the bad shit related to him were not actually his fault but Jane's!

Pre retcon? Sure, he went on a murder rampage, but he eventually went and revived his friends. Clearly making amends! Infact he even revived trolls he himself did not kill. Probably more than made up for the damage he did.

And what thanks does he get? Stuck in a fridge. Stuck in a fridge and stopped from reviving his friends post retcon. Rip Eridan and Feferi, i guess.

Alright, in the end, he does have some serious problems. Although Terezi was totally killing him the fuck down, he was still alive and went bonkers angry when he maybe shouldnt have. Though you cant really blame him.... he can blame him for going so far, though.

But post retcon gamzee didnt do that. Yet he gets stuck in a fridge and then MURDERED by Vriska!! As of current time, Vriska has killed just as many people as Gamzee, yet recieved no penance. She is free to murder hella redeemed psycho clowns like its free parking.
All im saying is. Cut the clown some slack now that we're in hs2. His clown religion was fulfilled and he no longer has any evil demons whispering in his ear. Let him have his redemption arc >:(

Good luck to Meat Gamzee!

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:52 am
by RoyalFiddle
It seems like an absurdity to say that Candy Gamzee did nothing wrong when he literally and intentionally pushed Jane further and further into her Condy given Fascist tendencies using an unhealthy Kismesis that harmed a (admittedly shitty as fuck and based on kinda sexual assault) Matespritship and emotionally abused their child. And even before that, in the pre-retcon timeline he fucks up several kernalsprites, screwing the post scratch kids even further, and, ya know, is one of the contributing factors towards Game Over's shit show. AND EVEN BEFORE THAT, he took advantage of a grieving Terezi for his fucked up abusive Kismesiship that make both parties worse off.

Gamzee isn't good, and the amount of fucked up shit he's done (Way, way more with Vriska with no guilt or effort to change) is far beyond the point of redemption

He is the perfect example of a neglected child creating and furthering a cycle of abuse.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:18 am
by PurplePest29
Gamzee isnt in meat yet Jane is still fascist-like. Infact, i dont think hes affected her that way at ALL.

The kernal sprites was reviving his friends and game over was mostly aranea's fault. He wouldnt have even been there if not for her. If he was anyway, then Terezi wouldnt have been able to stab him so badly while he was so pacified. Idk, maybe he wouldnt have raged so hard? His mission at the time of setting up lord english was pretty opposed to interfering any further with the characters at all though.

He EASILY has the aptitude for bad, but within Candy timeline itself, he hasnt done much outstanding. Not that much more than Vriska. Also, remember, Ghost vriska is the redeemed one. not this clown murderin 1.

I assume his business with Terezi was pretty abusive.

I think the epilogues were suggesting Gamzee was kinda like a juggalo ver of Bro for Tavros? We'll have to wait and see how much he actually managed to do. Ngl tho, better than he would have been, left to Jane? He was like a servant.

Vriska on the other hand crippled tavros just cus she didnt like him and thrn wasted all his time during their session by training him or something. Stopping him from actually doing his own quest or improving. Then she kills him.
Now that i think about it, if we're taking into account Game Over (which im not cus it didnt happen anymore), then what about the time Vriska got ALL the trolls killed by fighting Jack? Even tho Terezi told her it would happen.

Gamzee could have a real redemption arc and at the very least doesnt deserve to die to some flightly spider girl, not in candy.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:25 am
by BrobyDDark
PurplePest29 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:18 am
Gamzee could have a real redemption arc and at the very least doesnt deserve to die to some flightly spider girl, not in candy.
He can't have a redemption arc. He clearly doesn't show any actual feelings of remorse, he just doesn't know what else to do. The only people who ACTUALLY want him to have a redemption arc are Roxy and Calliope, who kinda forced the whole issue.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:39 am
by Shitpost Lizard
Every iteration of Gamzee deserves to die.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:47 pm
by calamityCons
The reason Gamzee is such a black hole of evil is because of a shitty writing decision that got doubled down over and over again because the original twist was so poorly handled and stupid that fans like me always hated it. The continued beating of the dead horse that is “Redeem Canon Gamzee” is just a repetitive and annoying assertion that “Gamzee is bad and we will do everything possible to make him the absolute worst thing in this comic until you agree that he is bad.”

That’s my perspective.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:43 pm
by pfeffer-29

that's it

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:17 am
by harmoniousCalamity
Yeah it's really unfortunate, I would've liked to see more of gamzees real character that wasn't just....whatever we got, and on the same topic of being double downed on, they really are trying to make Jane truly evil huh?

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:53 pm
by calamityCons
It's so disrespectful and not fun at all to watch these characters get pounded into the ground about their Evilness. There is no character-focused reason for these characters to be so blatantly antagonistic and cartoonishly evil that I can see, they are just square pegs shoved into round holes. Gamzee has nothing left to him in canon besides his status as a black hole of evil, and Jane is an antagonistic force that is supposed to be driving the plot forward I guess, but like, in a way I couldn't give less of a shit about. Jane was not engaging to me to begin with, and she proceeded to continue being unengaging because now she's unsympathetically a bastard.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:38 am
by PurplePest29
It could be valuable to see his worser side if we could at least see his great, outstanding side a little more. But the story tries to make his kindness early on a mistake, which, is kinda true for someone of his caste but not anymore. Especially not on earth C.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:22 pm
by PilotBlackSmith
nah, it was funny

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:32 am
If I'm being honest, I think that gamzee could only be a villain.

Re: Candy Gamzee didnt deserve to die

Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:31 pm
by TantamountTurnabout
Honestly Gamzee is one of the characters I've had the biggest like Big Brain Moments about looking back on homestuck, and how he's utilized.
Like, if you look at the trolls story it's sort of in two parts. To start off they're an extremely dysfunctional bunch of kids, both products of their environments and their own weird idiosyncrasies, but they're able to come together regardless to overcome incredible odds and win SGRUB. The meteor, however, creates this tragic lord of the flies environment, where all their unsolved tensions, issues, and flaws, boil over and the start turning on each other. None of them really deserved to die, but their adolescent inability to deal with their own issues and conflicts lead to their own destruction.
If you look at Gamzee in particular, pre-sgrub he's a pretty chill and friendly but heavily self medicated guy. He has a predisposition towards rage and violence by his evil clown blood, but that's not necessarily who he is. On the meteor he's cut off from his coping mechanism (not that it was perfect) and is flung into a psychotic, violent, and murderous episode.
But then the story doesn't really, deal with that at all? Like after that he sort of becomes just this sort of vague, antagonistic yet facetious Force of general, Badness. Like, his character doesn't get any real exploration outside of being A Bad Guy or A Joke. And the epilogues really just, double triple and quadrupled down on this. Like Gamzee becomes an absolutely miserable character to interact with, every thing he does and says is repulsive, the idea that he could have a "redemption arc" is treated as a repugnant joke.
I think you can very easily draw parallels between Gamzee and someone bipolar or schizophrenic, who depend on medication to make day to day functioning easier. If you take that read though, it treats people like that as inherently dangerous or repugnant, whose "True Nature" is inherently violent, even if it is beyond their control. Which Is Pretty Yikes!
Honestly there's so much more character to explore outside of just a Redemption Arc. Like, how does he think about his actions either high or sober? Would he want to pursue medicating again, maybe finding better options than just Drinking Sopor Slime that leave him more regular, or would he be afraid of losing the clarity he thinks he now feels? Is he guilty about what he did on the meteor or just, dissociative?
It's honestly bizarre to take a character and make him into just a weird ugly punching bag instead of a person.