Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

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thorondraco
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Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm

Here is a big question. What if this device is used by some unknown and unseen party to prepare for sburb sessions?

Effectively the device is used to generate a viable species to play sburb. This happens outside of all viewer ship to us all cause it must be a secret, and Dirk fucked that up here. Once a viable species is made, males and females are generated, even if said species is meant to reproduce with an outside factor like the Trolls. Its possible and liekly they used the first generation to create the second generation. Dirk, jake, jane and roxie used to create john, jade, dave and rose as an example. And then the timeloop is established by creating another set of clones of these males and females, basically the Adams and Eves of the species though not directly. A viable planet is either seeded or 'destined' to bear this species.

What i am getting at is THIS IS WHERE DREAM SELVES COME FROM! That is the primary mystery that was never explained in homestuck. Where do dream selves come from? Their creation is never seen. But if dream selves are nothing short of the original default form of the players? Set up as either second lives or to allow god tiering depending on the objectives. Of course we don't know what happens to the guardians group of the session, the ones that don't play. Something dark or maybe the creators are more benign than that.

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VASKA
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by VASKA » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:59 pm

I'm fairly certain dream selves are game constructs, and therefore function like all other game constructs: they have an artificial history and seem to have "always existed", but from the perspective of the narrative they actually just get "loaded in" once someone plays the game, and then are able to effect things before their creation due to time travel and the fact that the Medium and it's respective universe are "out of sync" with each other temporally.
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thorondraco
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:04 pm

VASKA wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:59 pm
I'm fairly certain dream selves are game constructs, and therefore function like all other game constructs: they have an artificial history and seem to have "always existed", but from the perspective of the narrative they actually just get "loaded in" once someone plays the game, and then are able to effect things before their creation due to time travel and the fact that the Medium and it's respective universe are "out of sync" with each other temporally.
I think that has long been a misconception made by peeps who didn't truly understand what was going on. They were made for sburb and the sessions are specifically made for them They believed it was a 'highly flexible mythology' but that was a theory before they knew about the predestination aspect, the loop. The reality is it was all set up for them beforehand. Its unlikely that launching sburb creates anything, it is simply starting up the gaming mechanics of the session and linking them to the Medium.

Also we know for a fact that most game constructs aren't made out of thin air. Ectobiology likely creates them. The only possible exception being the monsters whom drop grist upon destruction, likely falling apart into their base component, da grist.

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RoyalFiddle
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by RoyalFiddle » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:54 pm

No, Underlings are another product of ectobiology, per Hussie's commentary, and yeah, Dream Selves are Game Constructs.

I think that the Ecto-Alchemologizer is used to create the new species after a game is won, though. It just fits too well not to be the case.
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thorondraco
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:54 pm

RoyalFiddle wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:54 pm
No, Underlings are another product of ectobiology, per Hussie's commentary, and yeah, Dream Selves are Game Constructs.

I think that the Ecto-Alchemologizer is used to create the new species after a game is won, though. It just fits too well not to be the case.
I do think it is used but i don't think its ever used by the winners of the game. I got this disturbing gilded cage visage in my head when it comes to 'winning the game'' and the ultimate self could be seen as a killswitch mechanism for god tiers. They are thrown to the side and left to rot. Considering the powers Dirk is displaying and Rose could possibly display herself one day, there might be a reason.

But even then it means the dreamselves are created. And if every aspect of the game is built from ectobiology, that means ectobiology was used to create them. And that they existed and grew up too, likely aging at the same rate. You would think that part of the setup would be creating the dream selves as well so they are provided.

I still think it is plausible that Dream selves could be the og versions. They show unusual characteristics and merging with them is necessary to god tier apparently.

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VASKA
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by VASKA » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm

I personally think what Dirk and Rose are doing here is out of the ordinary. There's no way humans were made with this kind of tech, since the trolls never entered our universe, and there's no reason for a cherub to have done this. Even if we use the "forbidden lore", assuming that even has any relevance, the earliest aliens show up on Earth was in the old west, not the dawn of our species.

It's kind of a big "fuck you" to paradox space and an assertion of dominance. Just like when Vriska manipulated the human session to create Bec Noir, Dirk is just doing this to show that he's important and has his hand in both fulfilling and subverting paradox space's will.
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thorondraco
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:55 pm

VASKA wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm
I personally think what Dirk and Rose are doing here is out of the ordinary. There's no way humans were made with this kind of tech, since the trolls never entered our universe, and there's no reason for a cherub to have done this. Even if we use the "forbidden lore", assuming that even has any relevance, the earliest aliens show up on Earth was in the old west, not the dawn of our species.

It's kind of a big "fuck you" to paradox space and an assertion of dominance. Just like when Vriska manipulated the human session to create Bec Noir, Dirk is just doing this to show that he's important and has his hand in both fulfilling and subverting paradox space's will.
More than likely a species is made in the median in the area where a sburb session is created and once they got a new species they seed it into the new world either through the meteors or through some timespace wombo jombo to make their existence destined. Its why i think the Dream selves are the initial creations of this process. Establish the parents, created the kids related to them, and then setup the process of their direct player selves being cloned.

I do think humans WERE made with this tech but not on earth itself. Least homestuck humans.

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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by RoyalFiddle » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:52 pm

VASKA wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm
... Even if we use the "forbidden lore...
Man I started to feel like I was the only person to have read that, is it still even canon?
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by Dream Muttman » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:06 am

Pretty sure this is the tech used to make first guardians.
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thorondraco
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:19 am

Dream Muttman wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:06 am
Pretty sure this is the tech used to make first guardians.
OOOOOH you're right.

OH FUCK it means dirk could make his own first guardians too! This machine's abilities are unlimited... No more likely Dirk can make it unlimited cause he controls the direction of the narrative and can ensure everything that happens is 'canon'. Otherwise the machine's abilities would be limited by the alpha timeline alone.

Basically the main difference is that it requires the codes as a 'material'.

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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by Generalrabogolfo » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:30 am

RoyalFiddle wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:52 pm
VASKA wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm
... Even if we use the "forbidden lore...
Man I started to feel like I was the only person to have read that, is it still even canon?
dont think so, which is a shame
:rosecool:

thorondraco
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:24 pm

Generalrabogolfo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:30 am
RoyalFiddle wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:52 pm
VASKA wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm
... Even if we use the "forbidden lore...
Man I started to feel like I was the only person to have read that, is it still even canon?
dont think so, which is a shame
I think certain things are still but likely edited in essence. Calamity for example is probably still very much canon. Wherever she may be.

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stark
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by stark » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:23 pm

VASKA wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm
...the "forbidden lore"...
is there a thread here for that, or would it even be allowed? i loved all that shit but i know its kind of a touchy subject
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:30 pm

Generalrabogolfo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:30 am
RoyalFiddle wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:52 pm
VASKA wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:07 pm
... Even if we use the "forbidden lore...
Man I started to feel like I was the only person to have read that, is it still even canon?
dont think so, which is a shame
I don't think it was ever cannon. Really it's not worth bothering at this point with what is and is not cannon.
Last edited by ThePungeonMaster on Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BrobyDDark
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by BrobyDDark » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:19 pm

f

Forbidden lore ?

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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by Generalrabogolfo » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:21 pm

BrobyDDark wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:19 pm
f

Forbidden lore ?
>he doesnt know
hoooo boy
:rosecool:

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BrobyDDark
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by BrobyDDark » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:35 pm

Generalrabogolfo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:21 pm
BrobyDDark wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:19 pm
f

Forbidden lore ?
>he doesnt know
hoooo boy
exPLAIN

thorondraco
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Re: Theory after seeing the Ectoalchemizer.

Post by thorondraco » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:04 pm

BrobyDDark wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:35 pm
Generalrabogolfo wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:21 pm
BrobyDDark wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:19 pm
f

Forbidden lore ?
>he doesnt know
hoooo boy
exPLAIN
They released a set of ntoes that hussie made that kinda explained what the batterwitch got up in in the background. Eating some folks in the civil war age, getting caught in a battle, marrying Sassacre. And generally how she went about manipulating events in the background and how historical figuers tended to be her pawns, like Albert einstein and Hitler....

THAT kinda had a few tasteless jokes in it, mainly Albert was a fraud, getting information from the batterwitch bout science, and Hitler started the holocaust to spite him out of jealousy. Hitler being petulant and shit. Also she used hitler to create the insane clown possee and guy fieri.

The hitler and albert thing was the major issue and was kinda overlooked, even though it was meant to be a parody and joke it was a bit tasteless. Think when hussie wrote it he thought mostly in contrast to batterwtich's bullshit than real world comparison.

The major addition though is Calamity. A cherub, the mother/father of caliborn and calliope. She beat the shit out of the batterwitch to make her do her job and acted as an antagonist to her throughout the first iteration of Earth. But vanishes completely a few decades before homestuck starts, and is utterly absent after the alpha timeline transition.

At the end she appears as the batterwtich lay dying, saying she 'served her purpose' and that a 'mother will do anyhting for their children', before flying off to Universe C.

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