On the future of Homestuck

Discuss post-canon works such as the Homestuck Epilogues, Pesterquest, or Homestuck 2 here!

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Cherry_Bugs_ » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:32 am

BrobyDDark wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:28 am
I wanna know what the Homestuck crew thinks of these results.
oh my god me too that's be hilarious
maybe follow me on tumblr? https://cherry-bugs.tumblr.com/ or maybe my ao3?? (i will be posting homestuck fics in the future) https://archiveofourown.org/users/Cherry_Bugs or maybe join my hs discord server? https://discord.gg/S2wHY4g

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:42 pm

Honestly, the dream is for at least one of these to get seen by the Homestuck team, but I fuckin' know that's never gonna happen.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Khiara » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:31 pm

ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:42 pm
Honestly, the dream is for at least one of these to get seen by the Homestuck team, but I fuckin' know that's never gonna happen.
Maybe you can tell one of them about this? I mean, you had an interview with Aysha before.

Though I can't blame you if nothing would be changed at all and they would just stick on their "don't like don't read" mentality. Let's keep on dreaming.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by luigi » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:43 pm

Khiara wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:31 pm
ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:42 pm
Honestly, the dream is for at least one of these to get seen by the Homestuck team, but I fuckin' know that's never gonna happen.
Maybe you can tell one of them about this? I mean, you had an interview with Aysha before.

Though I can't blame you if nothing would be changed at all and they would just stick on their "don't like don't read" mentality. Let's keep on dreaming.
Don't like don't support is where I'm at. I was a 10$/month patron until I started reading through their twitter feeds and since then they've lost me.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:06 am

I've actually considered getting in touch with Aysha, but I don't want to do it for no reason. I'm holding off on asking her to do anything untill I think I've got a good enough cause. Maybe for the next one of these. I'm thinking about making this something that runs on a semi-regular schedule.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by trying » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:41 am

Thanks for you hard work on the survey. Interesting results.
How would you rate the execution of meta elements in HS^2/Pesterquest?:
Scale of 1-10, Average: 4.14
You're a man of high integrity for posting the actual average instead of 4.13

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ZingDev » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:30 am

ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:06 am
I've actually considered getting in touch with Aysha, but I don't want to do it for no reason. I'm holding off on asking her to do anything untill I think I've got a good enough cause. Maybe for the next one of these. I'm thinking about making this something that runs on a semi-regular schedule.
idk man, i feel like showing a team member what some fans think about their work would be a just enough cause.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by calamityCons » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:32 am

I think it really would be a good idea if you approached Aysha or any other member of the team with a draft of the next poll/survey, and then Aysha and the team can promote it to reach their audience on Twitter as well as the audience already responding.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Sokota » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:44 pm

ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:46 am
Top 5 Answers for least favorite Pesterquest route:
Vriska: 29%
Gamzee: 13.6%
Feferi: 9.1%
Eridan: 7%
Kanaya: 6.1%
(Of note, roughly the same percent answered that Eridan was their favorite route, at 5.4%)

How would you rate the execution of meta elements in HS^2/Pesterquest?:
Scale of 1-10, Average: 4.14

Do you think there should be more fan involvement in HS^2?:
Scale of 1-5, Average: 3.07

Do you think Homestuck should be made public domain/put under creative commons license?
Scale of 1-5, Average: 3.12

Are you optimistic or pessimistic for the future of Homestuck?
Scale of 1-5, Average: 2.65

Rate the quality of Pesterquest:
Scale of 0-10, Average: 5.9

Rate the quality of HS^2:
Scale of 0-10, Average: 4.5

Rate the quality of the Epilogues:
Scale of 0-10, Average: 4.5

Rate the quality of Homestuck acts 1-5:
Scale of 0-10, Average: 9

Rate the quality of Homestuck act 6:
Scale of 0-10, Average: 7.5
Great work ThePungeonMaster. These statistics, to me, are the ones that are the most telling. I also support the idea of showing this to one of the WP team members.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Khiara » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:46 pm

calamityCons wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:32 am
I think it really would be a good idea if you approached Aysha or any other member of the team with a draft of the next poll/survey, and then Aysha and the team can promote it to reach their audience on Twitter as well as the audience already responding.
But seeing that the result dominated by those who discussed HS mostly on discord and reddit, I'm afraid that the twitter fanbase response would not go any further than "hurr durr hsd and reddit sucks they are filled with assholes they just missed the old days they dont want more space for marginalized people bluuuhh they are invalid bye"
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:05 am

That's part of my thought process. I really want the results to encompass more of the community before I try to pass it off as though it's totally reliable.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by PilotBlackSmith » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:15 am

Khiara wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:46 pm
calamityCons wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:32 am
I think it really would be a good idea if you approached Aysha or any other member of the team with a draft of the next poll/survey, and then Aysha and the team can promote it to reach their audience on Twitter as well as the audience already responding.
But seeing that the result dominated by those who discussed HS mostly on discord and reddit, I'm afraid that the twitter fanbase response would not go any further than "hurr durr hsd and reddit sucks they are filled with assholes they just missed the old days they dont want more space for marginalized people bluuuhh they are invalid bye"
I remember when TPM posted the first poll on reddit someone literally said "yikes, I'll stick to twitter homestuck if you guys gonna be like this" and I really fucking hope it was a troll
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Khiara » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:47 am

ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:05 am
That's part of my thought process. I really want the results to encompass more of the community before I try to pass it off as though it's totally reliable.
I truly respect your attempt to make the survey ratio as objective as possible, so the fandom will be less divided.
"Cover both sides" is the key here.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Sollux4Smash » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 pm

I wanna say, as a person who was vaguely involved in the sort of "Homestuck twitter renaissance" fairly early on, people on both platforms have wildly skewed views of the other. Reddit thinks twitter is whispering radical leftist propaganda in hussie's ear, twitter thinks reddit is an incel cesspool. here's my advice to everyone: try to have fun. if you think more of the current state of homestuck should be focused on fanworks, then make some fanwork! if you want the authors to listen to criticism, work on finding ways to actually talk to them about it. homestuck is and always has been entirely dependent on its fans, and believe it or not, the writers just want to make a good story. and please, just try and chill a little bit. the writers are people, the prominent fandom members are people, everyone on this forum is a person, they can all read and be affected by the things you say. kate or aysha or hussie, whoever really, they are all people and it really feels like far too many fandom members treat them like story character supervillains, or on the other end, perfect gods who can do no wrong. just have fun. your experience with homestuck is entirely what you make it

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:32 pm

Sollux4Smash wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 pm
I wanna say, as a person who was vaguely involved in the sort of "Homestuck twitter renaissance" fairly early on, people on both platforms have wildly skewed views of the other. Reddit thinks twitter is whispering radical leftist propaganda in hussie's ear, twitter thinks reddit is an incel cesspool. here's my advice to everyone: try to have fun. if you think more of the current state of homestuck should be focused on fanworks, then make some fanwork! if you want the authors to listen to criticism, work on finding ways to actually talk to them about it. homestuck is and always has been entirely dependent on its fans, and believe it or not, the writers just want to make a good story. and please, just try and chill a little bit. the writers are people, the prominent fandom members are people, everyone on this forum is a person, they can all read and be affected by the things you say. kate or aysha or hussie, whoever really, they are all people and it really feels like far too many fandom members treat them like story character supervillains, or on the other end, perfect gods who can do no wrong. just have fun. your experience with homestuck is entirely what you make it
As much as your profile picture will forever haunt my nightmares, I'm inclined to agree. I acknowledge fully well that the authors do want to make a good story: That's all anyone wants, I'm just saying that they're wildly incompetent at it. Granted, this factionalization of the community isn't helping, but in some ways the authors are expediting the process. While I would love to say that the authors are completely innocent of everything they're convicted of, I can't say that with a clear conscience. We all know what Kate Mitchell has done, and that will always reflect poorly on the rest of the writers until they do something to condemn that behavior. I'd love to have fun with Homestuck, but the highly partisan climate it exists in isn't making it easy. Granted, I do agree wildly with the idea that everyone should work towards making Homestuck a better community. The Homestuck community is small, and small to the point where I'd say that really anyone can have a considerable impact if they try. Heck, that's why I started doing these surveys in the first place, to try and make an impact despite my relative irrelevance and my crippling laziness.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Shitpost Lizard » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:34 pm

The thing about treating creators like people and with respect is that it goes both ways.

If you act antagonistic towards your audience, you're gonna get antagonism back.
That's just how social exchange works.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by calamityCons » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:07 pm

Shitpost Lizard wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:34 pm
The thing about treating creators like people and with respect is that it goes both ways.

If you act antagonistic towards your audience, you're gonna get antagonism back.
That's just how social exchange works.
That's a big factor into the main confusion of this whole thing. When the authors are being so transparently vitriolic toward the people that like their thing, it just becomes an unbeatable double-bind. If you like Homestuck, the characters will make fun of you for liking it, and minimize everything by making it all out to be fake and unreal and not in any way important. If the message is "your interpretation of Homestuck is stupid and you are stupid for ever believing otherwise" such as Hussie's messages to Gamzee fans in the commentaries INSISTING that Gamzee never was and never will be a genuine character and that we are all "beyond all reason" for ever believing otherwise. This is a statement that has the core of "you are stupid for not knowing this was the way it is, and if you don't like it I recommend you leave." And now we have to deal not only with those, but with Ultimate Dirk being such an overt hateboner toward everyone who liked Acts 1-5 more than Act 6, mocking the reader at all times for ever wanting anything other than what he is giving us all as the main villain, it's infuriating, and frustrating, and is especially heartbreaking for people who were fans of Dirk Strider before the Epilogues. All of this is just sending an enormous message of "we do not like you, audience, go away please."

And then they turn around and make Pesterquest, which is very blatantly self-insert fanfiction in the form of a visual novel series written by the same writers as Homestuck 2, as far as I know. Pesterquest is a very mixed bag, but because Pesterquest is for profit on Steam, the authors are sending two contradictory messages. "We hate you and everything you have to say, so go away and don't come back," and "Please come over here and give us money, we will prove to you that you actually matter in this by making your OC canon." In this way, no matter what any member of the fandom does, we will be in the wrong at all times. If we leave the fandom entirely, then we don't matter. If we stay in the fandom and support everything they do, we will still be reading the same story that has the same Ultimate Dirk pissing on us. If we stay in the fandom and have a more nuanced opinion, then it's very easy to get slotted into any category that lets other members of the fandom get away with bullying.

I would really appreciate it, personally, if things were more sincere, less vitriolic, more transparent, and less pretentious. This doesn't mean I want things to be happy-go-lucky everyone wins and nobody gets hurt. It means that I want the Homestuck team to stop making so many "Dear Negative Reader" tweets, and quit having Dirk be a ridiculous strawman for the opinions of people who have criticisms of what Homestuck 2 is doing. I'm not holding my breath, though, because the only real way to get exactly what I want is by making it myself.

/endTedTalk
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Khiara » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:55 pm

Sollux4Smash wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:15 pm
try to have fun.
I get your point.
I want to have fun in every fandom I am in. I really want to.

Disappointing ending? Character development errors? Ship didn't get canon in the end? I let it be. I might be sad but I can move on. Authors can get tired, bored, depressed and all. Life gets their way, and it happens. What can we do.
Ship wars? Headcanon wars? I can ignore them.

But never I've been so enraged and threatened in a fandom, because they mixed fictional preferences with people's personal, real life beliefs.
"I think transfem John didn't make any sense if we look at the beginning of the comic. Trans Eridan still make sense, but his gender talk in his PQ route is just so abrupt and out of his character. Also Vriska's PQ sprite needs to be fixed on its proportions."
"bluh bluh u r just transphobic u hate trans people u hate black artists u r just plain racist u r invalid shut the fuck up bluuuuhhh"

I can't stress this enough. This kind of premature accusations need to be stopped!
Viva la Diversity my ass! They would still harass marginalized people for disliking their ship/headcanons.

Even worse, the new writer team didn't make it any better. Instead, one of them supported this bullying culture. :jadesob:

But yeah, once again, fandom is just for fun, so I chose to move on nonetheless. If these surveys still would show the similar results where the audience disapprove their story development, and the authors still want to stay in their egg shells, it's their loss. Let them face the consequences, while we can leave them, pass their "canon materials" and enjoy our own "canon" elsewhere.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by RoyalFiddle » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:14 pm

Absolutely agreed you Naruto faced monstrosity. The vitriol coming from the fandom is worrisome, honestly, and I'm half prepared to start seeing Voltron levels of toxic fandom over some perceived slight. People need to chill
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Shitpost Lizard » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:52 am

calamityCons wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:07 pm
That's a big factor into the main confusion of this whole thing. When the authors are being so transparently vitriolic toward the people that like their thing, it just becomes an unbeatable double-bind. If you like Homestuck, the characters will make fun of you for liking it, and minimize everything by making it all out to be fake and unreal and not in any way important. If the message is "your interpretation of Homestuck is stupid and you are stupid for ever believing otherwise" such as Hussie's messages to Gamzee fans in the commentaries INSISTING that Gamzee never was and never will be a genuine character and that we are all "beyond all reason" for ever believing otherwise. This is a statement that has the core of "you are stupid for not knowing this was the way it is, and if you don't like it I recommend you leave." And now we have to deal not only with those, but with Ultimate Dirk being such an overt hateboner toward everyone who liked Acts 1-5 more than Act 6, mocking the reader at all times for ever wanting anything other than what he is giving us all as the main villain, it's infuriating, and frustrating, and is especially heartbreaking for people who were fans of Dirk Strider before the Epilogues. All of this is just sending an enormous message of "we do not like you, audience, go away please."

And then they turn around and make Pesterquest, which is very blatantly self-insert fanfiction in the form of a visual novel series written by the same writers as Homestuck 2, as far as I know. Pesterquest is a very mixed bag, but because Pesterquest is for profit on Steam, the authors are sending two contradictory messages. "We hate you and everything you have to say, so go away and don't come back," and "Please come over here and give us money, we will prove to you that you actually matter in this by making your OC canon." In this way, no matter what any member of the fandom does, we will be in the wrong at all times. If we leave the fandom entirely, then we don't matter. If we stay in the fandom and support everything they do, we will still be reading the same story that has the same Ultimate Dirk pissing on us. If we stay in the fandom and have a more nuanced opinion, then it's very easy to get slotted into any category that lets other members of the fandom get away with bullying.

I would really appreciate it, personally, if things were more sincere, less vitriolic, more transparent, and less pretentious. This doesn't mean I want things to be happy-go-lucky everyone wins and nobody gets hurt. It means that I want the Homestuck team to stop making so many "Dear Negative Reader" tweets, and quit having Dirk be a ridiculous strawman for the opinions of people who have criticisms of what Homestuck 2 is doing. I'm not holding my breath, though, because the only real way to get exactly what I want is by making it myself.

/endTedTalk
Honestly, I have much less of an issue with the characters themselves doing it, even though it's essentially beating a dead horse into powder by this point.

And more that they're getting into Twitter slap-fights with people over having "the wrong opinions".

That's no way for any professional company to act.
And it's to be expected from anyone with even an ounce of social awareness that you're gonna get a metric fuckton of backlash for doing that.
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