On the future of Homestuck

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On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:53 pm

First things first, have a poll: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIp ... sp=sf_link
Spread it to as many other readers as you can, I want to get a good sample size.
Second things second, lets get down to business.
There's been a lot of drama and uncertainty regarding the future of Homestuck in the past few months, how certain controversial choices made by the authors will be addressed, if the writers are good enough to handle an official continuation of Homestuck, and whether or not there should even be an official continuation of Homestuck. I think I can say with certainty that it has been exceedingly exhausting for all involved to be perpetually bickering over the meaning of cannon or whatever.So I figured I'd isolate it all into one thread. A predictions thread. Not regarding the plot of the story, but regarding factors outside of the story, or maybe some vague assumptions on whether the story will pan out well or not.
Figure I may as well start.

The most likely course of action I predict to be this:
- Now-Early 2020
The team continue to make questionable or controversial decisions, like canonizing certain characters as trans, locking increasingly relevant information behind the patreon, or certain head
community figures continuing to make displays of themselves on twitter (not naming names here).
- Early 2020
Hiveswap act 2 comes out, Jacksepticeye plays it, and while that does put Homestuck^2 in the spotlight, Homestuck is just too dense at this point for most people to hop on the bandwagon, only a small percent of those introduced staying with the community. This brings in a fairly small, but non-negligible amount of people, who haven't grown to tolerate all this cannon wankery, and are far less tolerant of the authors.
- Mid-Late 2020
An update/announcement comes out that is so egregious/controversial, that the vast majority of the community splits off, no matter how good the writing may be.
- 2020 Onward
The franchise suffers a slow heat death, with fans hemorrhaging from the community until it just becomes a loose coalition of underfunded fan projects. It's entirely possible that it may bounce back with a major officiated project that is significantly better than Homestuck itself, but at this point so many people are so tired of hearing about cannon nobody really cares.

Now this is, of course, a worst case scenario, or something close to it. Homestuck dies slowly, and without dignity. But at the rate things are going, this seems the most likely.
Granted, I'm still holding out hope that some other things could happen.
1. Writers start listening to criticism outside twitter. Definitely the most probable way the story will be resolved to be more palatable for more fans, but with how outstandingly scathing the criticism has been and how insulated the authors are, it's not likely.
2. The story just becomes good. Maybe we've been sleeping on these guys the entire time. They are professional writers after all, and it's entirely possible for our opinion of the writing in the story to change.
3. Hussie diversifies the writerbase. While he has been taking a backseat as of late, he may take over control again to some degree in some kind of effort to win the goodwill of fans.
4. Hussie unofficiates Homestuck^2/makes Homestuck public domain. Finally making good on that promise of giving Homestuck back to the fans, by actually turning HS^2 from an officiated continuation to a glorified fan project.
5. A hostile takeover occurs, as groups of disgruntled fans turn to a massive fan project that has a lower bar for entry and is held in greater esteem than the official continuation, and may even one day become officiated. Definitely the least likely, but still not impossible.
6. Something else entirely.
So those are my thoughts, do with them what you will. I want to know what predictions you have, positive or not, for the future of Homestuck. How right do you think I am? How right do you think you will be?
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by PilotBlackSmith » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm

thanks for making this
you should post this on twitter and reddit too
also please post results later on if possible, would be good to know what the community thinks and we should be able to show WP what we think about how Homestuck is being handled
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:13 pm

Already have:


If any of you have a large enough following to spread the twitter link, that'd be fantastic.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by classpectanon » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:44 pm

My mod eye is on this thread (and not in a good way). Remember to keep it civil and to move any beefing off-site, or I don't see this thread lasting very long.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by thorondraco » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:53 pm

Okay literally nothing you posted here has any credence at all.

For starters, only one characters has been labeled with gender Dysphoria. Roxy. We don't know if the tobrelone wishes hold any credence to actual storytelling. Its likely they won't because of the Candy theme of the contest and that some of them were pretty extreme in what they would change.

No relevant information is locked on the patreon and the said lock is in fact relatively cheap at five dollars. And the primary focus is supporting the writers of homestuck in general, the extra content is just an incentive to go 3 bucks higher than 2. We also probably have months if not years before the information is at all relevant to the story. And the idea it could die in a year is utterly ignorant of reality and trends. Especially as, obviously, there are a lot of people who in fact like it. But the angry people will be more vocal anyway. That has always been the truth.

Maybe i am just tired of all the negativity lately.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:59 pm

Sorry if the opinions in this thread/poll are skewed a bit. I tried to keep it neutral, and I don't mean any ill intent to any part of the community. I don't mean to pick fights in this thread.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by calamityCons » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:01 pm

thorondraco wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:53 pm
Okay literally nothing you posted here has any credence at all.

For starters, only one characters has been labeled with gender Dysphoria. Roxy. We don't know if the tobrelone wishes hold any credence to actual storytelling. Its likely they won't because of the Candy theme of the contest and that some of them were pretty extreme in what they would change.

No relevant information is locked on the patreon and the said lock is in fact relatively cheap at five dollars. And the primary focus is supporting the writers of homestuck in general, the extra content is just an incentive to go 3 bucks higher than 2. We also probably have months if not years before the information is at all relevant to the story. And the idea it could die in a year is utterly ignorant of reality and trends. Especially as, obviously, there are a lot of people who in fact like it. But the angry people will be more vocal anyway. That has always been the truth.

Maybe i am just tired of all the negativity lately.
All surveys inevitably have biased questions. Hopefully this survey can be edited somewhat to have more neutral language. However, if you're upset about the negativity of the forum posts, you can always go to the Homestuck Positivity Thread and start a discussion about the things you like as a palate cleanser.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:10 pm

calamityCons wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:01 pm
All surveys inevitably have biased questions. Hopefully this survey can be edited somewhat to have more neutral language. However, if you're upset about the negativity of the forum posts, you can always go to the Homestuck Positivity Thread and start a discussion about the things you like as a palate cleanser.
Sorry, no. Went back to see if I could change it, and it produces a separate link. I don't want to try and scrub what I've already done and replace it with another survey with one or two questions slightly altered, so I have to leave it as is. Sorry again for the biased language.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by calamityCons » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:34 pm

ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:10 pm
calamityCons wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:01 pm
All surveys inevitably have biased questions. Hopefully this survey can be edited somewhat to have more neutral language. However, if you're upset about the negativity of the forum posts, you can always go to the Homestuck Positivity Thread and start a discussion about the things you like as a palate cleanser.
Sorry, no. Went back to see if I could change it, and it produces a separate link. I don't want to try and scrub what I've already done and replace it with another survey with one or two questions slightly altered, so I have to leave it as is. Sorry again for the biased language.
I understand, sucks that you can't edit it without creating a separate link :/
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by melonLord » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:07 am

...I really wish I knew exactly what people meant by "diversifying the writerbase". Because I've seen that particular line floating around a few times on Reddit but there never seems to be a lot of detail regarding what perspectives are missing/what changes need to be made and how its affecting the writing.

Like. Does the team need more PoC writers? More female writers? More lgbt writers? More neurodivergent writers? I'm not sure what the specific criticism being made here is. Maybe there are legitimate and detailed concerns that I'm unaware of, but so far all I've gotten is a vague sentiment that it would be nice if the writers posted on reddit and like, had fewer Trans character interpretations.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by Darth_Energon » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:35 am

melonLord wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:07 am
...I really wish I knew exactly what people meant by "diversifying the writerbase". Because I've seen that particular line floating around a few times on Reddit but there never seems to be a lot of detail regarding what perspectives are missing/what changes need to be made and how its affecting the writing.

Like. Does the team need more PoC writers? More female writers? More lgbt writers? More neurodivergent writers? I'm not sure what the specific criticism being made here is. Maybe there are legitimate and detailed concerns that I'm unaware of, but so far all I've gotten is a vague sentiment that it would be nice if the writers posted on reddit and like, had fewer Trans character interpretations.
You're overthinking it, I'm pretty sure they're just talking about people who aren't part of the "twitter crowd".
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:25 pm

Currently at ~400 submissions, I'm probably going to post the results of the poll next Sunday/Monday. If you have a twitter following, try to spread it there, as my account has a whopping 2 followers. Additionally, I'd like to kickstart discussion again on the future of Homestuck: I know this thread didn't get off to a good start, mostly by fault of my own, but I still think that this kind of topic warrants discussion.
Addendum:
melonLord wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:07 am
...I really wish I knew exactly what people meant by "diversifying the writerbase".
Yes, when I was talking about diversifying the writer base, I meant taking in more people from outside the twitter crowd. Granted, it could mean any of those other things you listed, depending on context.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by calamityCons » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:12 pm

I agree it would be nice to have members of the writing crew who have disagreements or alternate interpretations of the story/characters. If Gamzee's route were written by someone who understands and loves Gamzee pre-Murderstuck, it might have gotten a different reception than the one we received, which basically wound up not being about Gamzee at all and instead was about Karako from Friendsim. Meanwhile, the Equius route was e%ceptionally good, because he was treated with empathy, understanding, and dignity. I just don't want these good characters to get constantly shat on by the narrative, like they were in the epilogues, you know?
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by galileanTactician » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:15 am

Darth_Energon wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:35 am
melonLord wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:07 am
...I really wish I knew exactly what people meant by "diversifying the writerbase". Because I've seen that particular line floating around a few times on Reddit but there never seems to be a lot of detail regarding what perspectives are missing/what changes need to be made and how its affecting the writing.

Like. Does the team need more PoC writers? More female writers? More lgbt writers? More neurodivergent writers? I'm not sure what the specific criticism being made here is. Maybe there are legitimate and detailed concerns that I'm unaware of, but so far all I've gotten is a vague sentiment that it would be nice if the writers posted on reddit and like, had fewer Trans character interpretations.
You're overthinking it, I'm pretty sure they're just talking about people who aren't part of the "twitter crowd".
I agree. Just a glance at Twitter and you're already swept in controversy. Personally I'd think it'd be best if there were more creators that didn't insult my intelligence every time I had earnest criticism.

Edit: Going back through Twitter now. Jesus, this brings back tangential memories of Dan Slott blocking people for telling him that Doctor Octopus is apparently a villain.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by nonsenseMnemonic » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:22 pm

calamityCons wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:12 pm
I agree it would be nice to have members of the writing crew who have disagreements or alternate interpretations of the story/characters. If Gamzee's route were written by someone who understands and loves Gamzee pre-Murderstuck, it might have gotten a different reception than the one we received, which basically wound up not being about Gamzee at all and instead was about Karako from Friendsim. Meanwhile, the Equius route was e%ceptionally good, because he was treated with empathy, understanding, and dignity. I just don't want these good characters to get constantly shat on by the narrative, like they were in the epilogues, you know?
Yes to this -- in a perfect world they'd have people contributing who loved every character even at their most boring or controversial, imo. I know not everyone is into Homestuck for the characters, but a lot of us are, and new content is better when it comes from people who love them the same way (and ofc also have less attached people to make sure those interpretations are up to par). That'd probably be too many people to actually take on into the team, but it's one ideal
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by ThePungeonMaster » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:35 pm

nonsenseMnemonic wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:22 pm
calamityCons wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:12 pm
I agree it would be nice to have members of the writing crew who have disagreements or alternate interpretations of the story/characters. If Gamzee's route were written by someone who understands and loves Gamzee pre-Murderstuck, it might have gotten a different reception than the one we received, which basically wound up not being about Gamzee at all and instead was about Karako from Friendsim. Meanwhile, the Equius route was e%ceptionally good, because he was treated with empathy, understanding, and dignity. I just don't want these good characters to get constantly shat on by the narrative, like they were in the epilogues, you know?
Yes to this -- in a perfect world they'd have people contributing who loved every character even at their most boring or controversial, imo. I know not everyone is into Homestuck for the characters, but a lot of us are, and new content is better when it comes from people who love them the same way (and ofc also have less attached people to make sure those interpretations are up to par). That'd probably be too many people to actually take on into the team, but it's one ideal
I don't think we should have writers work on characters they love, as that leads to idealizing of the characters and authors projecting themselves onto the characters. We've already seen such happen with Vriska, and such love and sympathy given to her ruins what makes her interesting: her complexity, and inability to be shoved into either a conclusive good or bad category. Rather, I think there should be a balance of people who love Vriska, or any similarly controversial topic, and people that hate said controversial topics. And the writing team should know enough to swap out the writers accordingly depending on the circumstance and the talents of the authors.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by nonsenseMnemonic » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:03 pm

ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:35 pm
I don't think we should have writers work on characters they love, as that leads to idealizing of the characters and authors projecting themselves onto the characters. We've already seen such happen with Vriska, and such love and sympathy given to her ruins what makes her interesting: her complexity, and inability to be shoved into either a conclusive good or bad category. Rather, I think there should be a balance of people who love Vriska, or any similarly controversial topic, and people that hate said controversial topics. And the writing team should know enough to swap out the writers accordingly depending on the circumstance and the talents of the authors.
Yeah of course! That's what I meant by making sure the interpretations are up to par (I definitely could have been more clear). It's super important to have people with different perspectives on board with writing each character, especially now that the writers are coming from the fan base and don't have the same perspective on the story or its direction as Hussie might have.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by JakeMorph » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 pm

i've never rly understood the sentiment i've seen around that andrew is being ""nepotic"" by giving writing roles to "his friends" bc i've never agreed that someone should be obligated to stage interviews or someshit to decide who works on their own intellectual property. that being said i CAN totally agree w/ people who say that it is completely antithetical to the whole "handing homestuck to the fans" idea to just make all the writers people who are either already friends with each other or otherwise share the same views.

obviously i'm not saying like, start hiring racists or homophobes or whatever, but i mean, like. i thought vriska's pesterquest episode was fine. i thought it was kind of annoying that it just pushes the idea that she "did nothing wrong" down the reader's throat (when i feel like part of vriska's appeal is how explicitly GRAY she is, morally speaking - but that's the topic of another thread), but i enjoyed the writing. my problem is that, for example, all of the other girl trolls' episodes are ALSO about vriska, as if the writers are all in one mind about it. and that's not conducive to interesting expanded universe content. if i wanted to read something that was in one mind about vriska and the characters surrounding her i would just read regular homestuck again.
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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by thorondraco » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:19 pm

nonsenseMnemonic wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:03 pm
ThePungeonMaster wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:35 pm
I don't think we should have writers work on characters they love, as that leads to idealizing of the characters and authors projecting themselves onto the characters. We've already seen such happen with Vriska, and such love and sympathy given to her ruins what makes her interesting: her complexity, and inability to be shoved into either a conclusive good or bad category. Rather, I think there should be a balance of people who love Vriska, or any similarly controversial topic, and people that hate said controversial topics. And the writing team should know enough to swap out the writers accordingly depending on the circumstance and the talents of the authors.
Yeah of course! That's what I meant by making sure the interpretations are up to par (I definitely could have been more clear). It's super important to have people with different perspectives on board with writing each character, especially now that the writers are coming from the fan base and don't have the same perspective on the story or its direction as Hussie might have.
I wonder if they are doing a similar thing when writing Homestuck^2 as they have been with pesterquest. Have peeps write certain parts of the story with characters they are familiar with/good at. Could help with keeping consistent voices for characters. Could also help with dealing with larger groups of characters too i would imagine.

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Re: On the future of Homestuck

Post by thorondraco » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:25 pm

JakeMorph wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 pm
i've never rly understood the sentiment i've seen around that andrew is being ""nepotic"" by giving writing roles to "his friends" bc i've never agreed that someone should be obligated to stage interviews or someshit to decide who works on their own intellectual property. that being said i CAN totally agree w/ people who say that it is completely antithetical to the whole "handing homestuck to the fans" idea to just make all the writers people who are either already friends with each other or otherwise share the same views.

obviously i'm not saying like, start hiring racists or homophobes or whatever, but i mean, like. i thought vriska's pesterquest episode was fine. i thought it was kind of annoying that it just pushes the idea that she "did nothing wrong" down the reader's throat (when i feel like part of vriska's appeal is how explicitly GRAY she is, morally speaking - but that's the topic of another thread), but i enjoyed the writing. my problem is that, for example, all of the other girl trolls' episodes are ALSO about vriska, as if the writers are all in one mind about it. and that's not conducive to interesting expanded universe content. if i wanted to read something that was in one mind about vriska and the characters surrounding her i would just read regular homestuck again.
Vriska affected a lot of her friends one way or another, often negatively. Kanaya's crush, Terezi and her's history. Sadly we are likely to get even more Vriska because its the two she has harmed the most next.

Fortunately Nepeta and Feferi have healthy distance from Vriska. But then we have Sollux who probably wants to forcechoke Vriska's head off and it was only the Hemospectrum bullshit that kept him from acting upon it. He would die if he did that. Though considering doomed timelines there is definitely a timeline where a Vriska was strangled to death by a Sollux.

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