TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
BrobyDDark wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:42 pm
I think the general audience prefers having a set of rules of the canon to fall back on, and for awhile, Homestuck did have that. There were few things left up to absolute interpretation- Classpects, the clock JuJu, and the terminals. Everything else was solid.
You're saying these game mechanics are "up to interpretation"? Terminals? You beam a message from the future directly into someone's brain in the past, and also you get to see them on a screen for the same reason a Sburb server player does: It's computer magic.
The terminals seem to be able to change the canon and manipulate characters in ways similar to the narrator powers Dirk and Alt-Calliope has. To me, this means there's a connection betweem the two, whether intentional or not. To you, it's "beam messages into brain computer magic." Both are valid ways of looking at it.
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
The god tier clock was explained in the epilogues as how a person feels about their demise (Dave's eulogy at dirk's funeral), which explains how Aranea used mind control to sway the judgment of the clock. (it looked like she was mind controlling the clock to be honest desu, but she was planting the suggestion that jade and jane did bad stuff that they are responsible for.) If anything, we have more rules to fall back on than we once did.
Heroic/Just. We know the Clock judges God Tiers. We don't know the full metric by what it measures. However, what we have can be extrapolated on to find various answers depending on the reader. Whether or not Slick beating the clock with his crowbar actually changed the outcome of Vriska's death. One way to interpret it is that, yes, she was going to be revived, but the clock suddenly being busted up meant it paused before she received judgement. Or no, she had a Just death the clock had already long since decided on.
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
Classpect is up to
speculation, not interpretation. Interpretation means there's multiple valid answers. Speculation means there's one correct answer but we haven't come to a consensus on it yet. (See the discourse on whether Pages are active or passive)
No, classpects are up to
interpretation because there's likely not a right answer, and Hussie is most likely never gonna say if there is a right answer, if he has one. Classpects could be based on the personality of the player, or their role on the story, both, or neither- leaving it random and the coincidences between multiple classes sharing some features being, well, coincidences.
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
BrobyDDark wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:42 pm
it was made clear from early on that there was ONE true timeline that the story was following.
The multiple continuities are still bound by rules, so I don't see how these two points are related.
Bound by rules that seem to break what's been established. Candy exists outside of Paradox Space. Candy exists despite John retconning in Meat.
Candy is meant to be John making a narrative choice that effects Homestuck as a story, like a what-if scenario he doesn't have control over or some shit, right? It's meant to be like an AU take on it, at least from what I got out of it, but they still had it connected to the "canon" side. A pretty heavy-handed message people kept pushing after the Epilogues (and in them) was that canon is whatever you want it to be. The non-canon part can still be canon if you really want it. But if that's the canon side, doesn't it contradict how the retcon powers work?
Multiple continuities have always had set rules: If it ain't the Alpha Timeline, it's a Doomed Timeline, and it will eventually die out. If you're lucky, you go to a dream bubble. The Epilogues set up Meat as a continuation of the Alpha Timeline, and Candy as a timeline that would cease to exist entirely if John doesn't go off to fight English. But neither of those are true. Given how we've seen the retcon powers work, it SHOULD be true- Meat becomes the true timeline and there is no room for a second, thuse anything that would have happened in Candy doesn't. However, Candy is still there, in its black hole. It still exists, and now things from Meat are piling into it, such as the ghosts.
Oh, and the connection is simple, at least to me: when introducing multiple timelines it often becomes difficult to propose that a story dealing with them is solid, at least in terms of rules. Time travel and dimension hopping, alternate realities, make the story and its rules seem less flexible. Maybe that's just me, though, and I'm having to stop and remind myself every now and then that despite that, it's just as solid as any other piece of literature.
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
BrobyDDark wrote: ↑Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:42 pm
What I do care about is whether or not they'll keep on with the in-universe meta-ass canon discussion.
You want to understand the rules of Homestuck, but you don't want exposition (meta-ass canon discussion) and you don't want to have to extrapolate what the rules are for yourself. (instantly assume the most ingratiating posture of surrender imaginable whenever something's )
I never said I didn't want to extrapolate for myself. If it was extrapolating that would be fine. Being able to figure things out by reading and piecing them together is fun. But there's a difference between being given a box full of puzzle pieces, and having to figure out what the cover should be based on how the completed puzzle looks. And being given encouraging words as you
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
shove round pegs in square holes
But even with a puzzle box, there's a way to give it to someone. The simplest answer is to give them a puzzle box. "See? There's the cover. That's what the puzzle looks like."/exposition. Then there's given them a puzzle box with a blank cover. "Here's a puzzle. Lets see what it looks like, huh?"/dropping clues and pieces of the puzzle in the story without use of a massive-ass exposition dump. Then there's giving them a puzzle box with a cover, they finish the puzzle, and the puzzle has one piece that doesn't match up with the rest of the puzzle, and when you point out how it looks different from the counter you say "Eh, up to interpretation."
They've made a stance that things such as character identities, how the canon works, whether Meat or Candy even matters, or even if this is fuckin' Homestuck anymore, is up to interpretation. That's not a puzzle, there's no extrapolation, there's no putting pegs into any holes even. There is "I say this" and the teacher at the front says "very good, that's valid."
Is there anything wrong with that? Eh. I'm not one to say. It's up to persepctive.
TH4NK YOU B3N wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:13 am
Homestuck is a story that's also a puzzle. I'm not going to say "get good at solving the puzzle," because I could be shoving round pegs in square holes for all I know, but at least I'm trying to piece it together. I'm not even sure what your actual issue is anymore, because your post doesn't add up.
This here is where I make my final point:
You have pegs to shove in holes, whether or not the shape of them, you still have those pegs. My issue with the meta-ass canon discussion, is that the teacher takes the pegs and hole box, spends ten minutes explaining the pegs and holes, then puts the pegs in the holes for you.
But that's just a sidenote. What I ultimately had to say, is just to give my opinion about where the story is going and how it relates to the decentralization of canon/how Homestuck is becoming even more of interprenational fiction. If someone sees what I wrote and decides to change their opinion, or reaffirm their opinion, or at least acknowledge my opinion (as such what you're doing now), then awesome. That's what I posted it for.