John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

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Oddhi
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John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by Oddhi » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:09 am

As I finished the Jane PQ route that was just released, a depressing realization had settled upon me.

John's problem was never fixed.

What I believe to be John's greatest struggle at the end of Homestuck, and in the epilogues is that he is alone. He is tossed to the side by his best friends as they go off and pursue newer friends and romances. John is left alone as everyone else comes together. This, I believe, is a major contributing factor to John's depression that is explored in the Epilogues.

PesterQuest is no better.

In PesterQuest, after John's route, we only really see him in the good ending of the Jade route. As soon as MSPAR begins his adventures on Alternia, John fades into the background. MSPAR does an excellent job of helping Rose, Dave, and Jade by introducing them to the trolls and allowing them to develop the friendships and romances that they had formed in HS proper. This, of course, is excellent to see for those 3. They are finally able to be happy with their loved ones without it being ruined by any nefarious schemes from villains. This, as a side effect, repeats exactly what had happened to John in canon.

All of John's friends have moved ship to Alternia (if MSPAR's dream is anything to go off of), and focused all of their attention onto the trolls. We know that this is true with Dave/Jade at the very least. It can be assumed that this is the case for Rose as well. This leaves John alone on Earth, and his friends are too pre-occupied to hang out with him anymore. Their happy endings have resulted in his own misery.

Even MSPAR admits to not having visited John in a very long time, and when they finally do attempt to visit and catch up, they are transported to Jane's house instead. In this way, it seems like the narrative itself is trying to enforce John's solitude. It is his curse to be left alone, even in the "happy ending" that MSPAR is trying to construct.



tl;dr - All of John's friends have left him for the trolls, thus mimicking the source of his depression in the Epilogues. He is left alone and unhappy by the narrative yet again.

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Generalrabogolfo
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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by Generalrabogolfo » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:07 am

why cant my boi be ever happy goddammit skaia or whoever the fuck you are i hate you so much :jadesob: :jadesob: :jadesob:
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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by BrobyDDark » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:30 am

John has only ever done good things, only ever tried to be nice to people, and help everyone. Yet he always ends up alone. People thrust his problems upon him and he rarely expects anything in return. Yet, even when he does want things in return, however small, he never gets it.

John deserves the world, and all he gets is dead and his friends at eachother's throats, his wife leaving him, and his son distancing from him.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by thorondraco » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:24 am

... Nooo john is not alone. He can freely visit his friends whenever he wants in person in pesterquest thanks to bec and the reader. Heck in karkat's route we see him hanging out with dave even. And without the whole PTSD of sburb on his mind, while his depression could still be there, it probably won't be anything resembling intense.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by Generalrabogolfo » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:31 am

thorondraco wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:24 am
... Nooo john is not alone. He can freely visit his friends whenever he wants in person in pesterquest thanks to bec and the reader. Heck in karkat's route we see him hanging out with dave even. And without the whole PTSD of sburb on his mind, while his depression could still be there, it probably won't be anything resembling intense.
mspar says it himself. he haven't been with him for a long time. and besides, the only other tine he's seen its just when Karkat is introduced, which is what op is talking about. once the trolls are introduced, his friends drift towards them and stop hanging out with him.
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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by calamityCons » Fri Feb 07, 2020 7:30 am

John doesnt deserve all of his crushing loneliness and i hate how the narrative punishes him for being a good kid.
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#ReviveSpadesSlick #WVForNarrativeRelevance

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by thorondraco » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:47 pm

Generalrabogolfo wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:31 am
thorondraco wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:24 am
... Nooo john is not alone. He can freely visit his friends whenever he wants in person in pesterquest thanks to bec and the reader. Heck in karkat's route we see him hanging out with dave even. And without the whole PTSD of sburb on his mind, while his depression could still be there, it probably won't be anything resembling intense.
mspar says it himself. he haven't been with him for a long time. and besides, the only other tine he's seen its just when Karkat is introduced, which is what op is talking about. once the trolls are introduced, his friends drift towards them and stop hanging out with him.
He also mistook what was clearly and obviously a dream sequence for something that actually happened. That was a dream sequence for him. He even said that his imagination knew things can't be totally perfect no matter what method he uses.

And yes its been a while since we seen john but its possible he is just hanging out with Rose for a moment or just chilling at home. That or he encountered his week in the past doppleganger and they are now having an existential angst sleepover....

Now i have an image of Rose doing a foe psychology session for two john and ones of them is dressed straight to goth. Like Ardata levels of goth. Grimdark john.
It devolves into an argument over main john just compeltely overwhelmed about how edgily ridiculous goth john looks and it eventually ended with Rose beating the shit out of both of them to calm them down.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by Oddhi » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:01 pm

thorondraco wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:47 pm
He also mistook what was clearly and obviously a dream sequence for something that actually happened.
Erm, but I do in fact acknowledge that it is a dream.
(if MSPAR's dream is anything to go off of)
It does not change the fact that Dave and Jade actually are currently present on Alternia, and the very plausible scenario in which Rose and Kanaya have begun their duel of wit.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by thorondraco » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:35 pm

Oddhi wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:01 pm
thorondraco wrote:
Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:47 pm
He also mistook what was clearly and obviously a dream sequence for something that actually happened.
Erm, but I do in fact acknowledge that it is a dream.
(if MSPAR's dream is anything to go off of)
It does not change the fact that Dave and Jade actually are currently present on Alternia, and the very plausible scenario in which Rose and Kanaya have begun their duel of wit.
Okay it is 100% certain they are back on earth shorlty after befriending nepeta. But to be fair the timeline is getting screwier by each route. Cause while its possible that timeline ceased to be in some capacvity, its likely its the same dave and jade that befriended nepeta and nepeta perhaps dreamed of this encounter?

THEN we have the feferi route while sadly did not super focus on feferi, weee might be getting a situation where we will have an ultimate self reader and feferi?

REgardless there is no way that the Reader left Dave and Jade back on alternia. Bout 100% likely he brought them back like he brought karkat back to alternia once the heat let off a bit.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by TH4NK YOU B3N » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:16 am

june egbert sadstuck moments:
people assuming she's okay

Remember when John said that he wasn't being abused? This John hasn't seen the drawings on the wall, the self-hatred that plagues his mind. (And in Jade's route he pointed that Rose had meow letters so they're definitely A Thing even if the reader can't see them.) So he's probably even worse off than Epilogues John, mentally.

I'm pretty sure the kids being on Alternia is just a dream thing? Like if they were there it'd just be for a day.

Also, minor correcrion: we saw John in Karkat's route.
only bad takes here

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by thorondraco » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:59 pm

TH4NK YOU B3N wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:16 am
june egbert sadstuck moments:
people assuming she's okay

Remember when John said that he wasn't being abused? This John hasn't seen the drawings on the wall, the self-hatred that plagues his mind. (And in Jade's route he pointed that Rose had meow letters so they're definitely A Thing even if the reader can't see them.) So he's probably even worse off than Epilogues John, mentally.

I'm pretty sure the kids being on Alternia is just a dream thing? Like if they were there it'd just be for a day.

Also, minor correcrion: we saw John in Karkat's route.
Hanging out with dave too. Bec teleportation powers.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by paladinnertime » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:00 am

Blood is the aspect of connection and friendships, breath is the opposite of blood, Junes destiny is to inherit loneliness as freedom, truly the heir of grief. :distraught:
So like do highbloods just love milk or what?

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by Generalrabogolfo » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:07 pm

paladinnertime wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:00 am
Blood is the aspect of connection and friendships, breath is the opposite of blood, Junes destiny is to inherit loneliness as freedom, truly the heir of grief. :distraught:
>both jade and john are bound to be alone
come ON we had enough with one aspect meaning loneliness for fucks sake
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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by RoyalFiddle » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:29 pm

THESE KIDS NEED THERAPY
ROS3S 4R3 BL4CK
V1OL3TS 4R3 BL4CK
3V3RYTH1NG 1S BL4CK
1M BL1ND
>:]

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by RoyalFiddle » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:30 pm

NOT A TROLL THERAPIST THOUGH, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A METHOD OF FUCKING CHAOS
ROS3S 4R3 BL4CK
V1OL3TS 4R3 BL4CK
3V3RYTH1NG 1S BL4CK
1M BL1ND
>:]

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by calamityCons » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:49 pm

Why must the happiest kids get the shittiest hands dealt to them. When will they take their life into their own hands and fight for their happy ending again. I dream of that day.
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#ReviveSpadesSlick #WVForNarrativeRelevance

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by thorondraco » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:58 pm

calamityCons wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:49 pm
Why must the happiest kids get the shittiest hands dealt to them. When will they take their life into their own hands and fight for their happy ending again. I dream of that day.
Cause sburb is a goal oriented narrative that takes place in a character oriented story.

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Re: John still is not happy in PesterQuest.

Post by rookie1978 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:34 am

John is still my hero. :lime:
I hope he comes back to us. He's the only thing that can save hs2
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