Homestuck.XYZ 2.0

homestuck should have ended at GO desu. it was a nice end to see the badies win.

Generalrabogolfo wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:54 am

homestuck should have ended at GO desu. it was a nice end to see the badies win.

As a proponent of the GO timeline, I wouldve been pretty pissed if that was how homestuck ended

nepeta x karkat

sources: nepeta says so

Since this was posted on a few days ago, I feel like I should post my Hottest Takes both about homestuck and it's fandom:

• Roxygen is just a knock off of grimdorks. and even has less development than grimdorks. (which is rather unfortunate as otherwise I would've considered it a cute ship.)

• On this same note I feel like grimdorks has had more development than rosemary even though rose and kanaya literately got married?

• _{(Oh also the fact that grimdorks only became more popular when the john trans hc became popular? Like is their dynamic good or not, make up your mind?)}

• The fact that Vrisrezi keeps on being pushed in story, as them being moirails or matesprites or w/ever when it's been shown time and time again that Vriska has Terezi trapped in this cycle of abuse honestly makes it nauseating to me.

• I honestly feel like we should've seen more of the kids/trolls complete their land quest, I find it rather disappointing that because a majority of them didn't do this, that we didn't get to see the versions of themselves that sburb wanted!

• I widely regard the tumblrone idea as a bad one, maybe it would've been good in like 2012 when people would've requested things that weren't geared so much in sexuality/gender hcs. We could've gotten some ***really cool stuff*** but didn't which to me is really sad and also mega lame!

And here are probably my most discourse worthy opinions:

• The fact that Andrew himself confirmed Rose as bisexual, and then later called her a lesbian, with out denouncing the former, is disingenuous at best and absolutely abhorrent at worst knowing the discourse was going to kick up in the fandom because of it.

• Along with this same line of thought I find the homestuck fandom at large is incredibly biphobic and often hcs over the bi-confirmed canon cast, to the point where they're typically nasty about it. But if you ever dare to breath in the direction as someone who is confirmed as gay or lesbian they are out for blood. To me it feels like they're treating bisexual people as straight light and as such don't feel bad about about overriding their representation.

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

lots of based takes

damn youre based af

@harmoniousCalamity: Agreed with all of this, 500%.

Generalrabogolfo wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 4:29 pm

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

lots of based takes

damn youre based af

honestly have no idea what this means but I'm assuming this is a compliment so thanks

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

• On this same note I feel like grimdorks has had more development than rosemary even though rose and kanaya literately got married?

• _{(Oh also the fact that grimdorks only became more popular when the john trans hc became popular? Like is their dynamic good or not, make up your mind?)}

this is, perhaps, the most based. rosemary has very few substantive conversations (e.g. "Our Daughter!") besides the six or seven or so from acts 3 through 5. grimdorks appears more natural because john and rose's personalities naturally complement one another, and they both have playful ways of pushing each other's buttons. moreover, one of john and rose's first extensive conversations is a fairly emotional interaction regarding the writing on john's walls, in which rose clearly displays care albeit in her somewhat cold, surgical way. this is why it's particularly questionable when act 5 skips more than half of rose and kanaya's interactions, immediately skipping to kanaya being a bashful fangirl; it just feels lazy in comparison to john and rose's interactions. i don't doubt rosemary as a ship, obviously, but in light of all of this i think it's fairly ignorant to just dismiss grimdorks as baseless hetero-washing. if kanaya weren't a homestuck character, i'm fairly sure it would prevail as the dominant rose ship.

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

• I honestly feel like we should've seen more of the kids/trolls complete their land quest, I find it rather disappointing that because a majority of them didn't do this, that we didn't get to see the versions of themselves that sburb wanted!

The trolls, I'd have loved to see that. The kids, though, it really makes sense that they don't. One of the major points of the kids' session(s) is, you've already hopelessly broken the game, the only way forward is to break it even more. They weren't and shouldn't have tried to play along with the game plot. Rose never even saw her denizen at all. The troll session is the only normal (if badly done) session we see, and this is one of a lot of ways I feel like the "short form" writing really hurts the worldbuilding. I understand why Hussie did it, and he really did make it work, but it would have been nice to see it just a little less so.

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

• Along with this same line of thought I find the homestuck fandom at large is incredibly biphobic and often hcs over the bi-confirmed canon cast, to the point where they're typically nasty about it. But if you ever dare to breath in the direction as someone who is confirmed as gay or lesbian they are out for blood. To me it feels like they're treating bisexual people as straight light and as such don't feel bad about about overriding their representation.

Is this stuff happening on Twitter? Because I don't see it here, I don't see it on Discord, and I most definitely don't remember it anywhere back in 2016.

Mandy wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 11:46 pm

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

• I honestly feel like we should've seen more of the kids/trolls complete their land quest, I find it rather disappointing that because a majority of them didn't do this, that we didn't get to see the versions of themselves that sburb wanted!

The trolls, I'd have loved to see that. The kids, though, it really makes sense that they don't. One of the major points of the kids' session(s) is, you've already hopelessly broken the game, the only way forward is to break it even more. They weren't and shouldn't have tried to play along with the game plot. Rose never even saw her denizen at all. The troll session is the only normal (if badly done) session we see, and this is one of a lot of ways I feel like the "short form" writing really hurts the worldbuilding. I understand why Hussie did it, and he really did make it work, but it would have been nice to see it just a little less so.

harmoniousCalamity wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 2:18 pm

• Along with this same line of thought I find the homestuck fandom at large is incredibly biphobic and often hcs over the bi-confirmed canon cast, to the point where they're typically nasty about it. But if you ever dare to breath in the direction as someone who is confirmed as gay or lesbian they are out for blood. To me it feels like they're treating bisexual people as straight light and as such don't feel bad about about overriding their representation.

Is this stuff happening on Twitter? Because I don't see it here, I don't see it on Discord, and I most definitely don't remember it anywhere back in 2016.

For the first point, like while I 100% get that. The curiosity of seeing like, Rose buckling down and trying to do her quest, as dave with his, and the alpha kids---It would've been really neat to see who sburb wanted to shape them as even if that'd all end up in doomed timelines---but yeah for the trolls I feel like we should've seen more of a typical sburb session and who really achieved what when it came to personal quests---I don't think we ever get to know what kind of quests they have to begin with outside of Kanayas?

Second point:

While I think homestuck fandom at large has always had a problem with hcing over bi rep. calling them gay/lesbian to the point where it's considered true by and large hasss always been around from what I've seen. The real aggression behind it, and thus more of my issue with it I want to say started to become really apparent around late 2013---at least on tumblr it did. While you're not likely to get someone to directly attack you on tumblr for saying "x in homestuck is bi" because they are bi (though there are plenty of people who will go at you if you say that about Rose, specifically).

but I've had at least 3 different people on reddit tell me rose is "actually a lesbian" (which admittedly due to hussie is now up to debate. Again.) or that Dave (yes, dave. Mr. I'm attracted to pretty much everyone strider) is "gay, actually" and then have proceeded to fight me or be nasty with me about it, when I am out here like. Bro, Hcs are cool, but they are canonically bi please leave me be. begone. vamoose. You naughty mean child.

Oh! And # of years ago at this point there was some absolute dumb fuck stupid drama in the #grimdorks tag on tumblr where and I quote "the shipname is actually for rosejade because rose is a lesbian" and "Grimdorks for rosejohn doesn't make sense because john never WENT grimdark lol!!" (yes, these are actual arguments from like...real people) and as such started to flood the tag with ship hate (of various kinds but there were at least several instances of rose being called a lesbian, drawn as such, used to fuel hate which was 100% epic and not annoying at all), and jaderose (Which has like several ship names already, why do you need more?) and even though this initial 'fight' is over, I still get echos of it on tumblr occasionally.


Also I have no idea about twitter because I don't live on there but if it's anything like old tumblr/current tumblr then I can then safely say: Are the twitter homestuck fandom people biphobic, probably yes.

TL;DR: People are aggressive about hcing bi characters to the point that by and large the fandom sees them as lesbian/gay, which on it's own would be an annoyance, still slightly biphobic, but okay I Guess. However, there has been a consistent trend over the years were people have become openly aggressive towards the people who say that "bi people are bi actually" and as such sometimes get attacked for it, which is like, top tier biphobia. This points at a larger issue in the homestuck fandom, the hypocrisy that gay/lesbian people can't be touched by conflicting hcs, but Bi people, specifically can be. Suggesting that bi people are somehow lesser or not "gay enough" to receive this treatment, and also that bi rep isn't worth anything.


Edit: Various mistakes, i was typing to fast lol. Removed some extra words, removed some ,s.

ಠ_ಠ

Whenever I looked over at Homestuck tumblr, it was like 80% stream-of-consciousness update reactions, and most of the rest was artists. I keep forgetting what a shitfest it apparently was/is at other times.

Mandy wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 12:29 am

ಠ_ಠ

Whenever I looked over at Homestuck tumblr, it was like 80% stream-of-consciousness update reactions, and most of the rest was artists. I keep forgetting what a shitfest it apparently was/is at other times.

Honestly that's fair, but with how casual/more open this stuff has become on some platforms I've just hidden myself away to ignore it all lol

Mandy wrote: ↑

Sun May 17, 2020 11:46 pm

Is this stuff happening on Twitter? Because I don't see it here, I don't see it on Discord, and I most definitely don't remember it anywhere back in 2016.

I'll never touch that shithole again, but i can tell you that, at the very least, they are super defensive towards lesbian!Rose. theres also people sending death threats in ao3 to authors posting grimdorks when its with john. (not june cause transitioning suddenly makes their relationship perfect in every way apparently)

I was on the front lines of a group of angry Lesbian Rose headcanoners who tried multiple tactics to remove a Grimdorks piece I made that won a contest and was placed on a shirt by WeLoveFine. The comments on the shirt were filled with "I HATE THIS ROSE IS A LESBIAN" and a couple of people tried to get it removed from the website entirely by claiming "copyright infringement" on the dress Rose was wearing, which necessitated me deleting some design elements I had originally included for the sake of courtesy to the original designer of Rose's dress. It was pretty harrowing and I had to turn off anonymous questions on my tumblr blog because of that.

So yeah, make no mistake. Grimdorks was always more natural and had more genuine chemistry and I ship it. I find Rosemary very bland because Kanaya herself is pretty dull and uninteresting to me, and I don't think she bounces off of Rose in an engaging way. And it is absolutely true that I have experience with those mean Homestuck fans who insist Rose is a lesbian, and they are toxic and demonstrably shallow and mean-spirited messy bitches who live for drama.

NGL I've found that most of the popular lesbian ships like Vriska X Terezi and Kanaya X Rose are infinitely more interesting when you replace the second party with John. Terezi X John, Rose X John, and, in case you couldn't tell by my signature, especially Vriska X John. Both Terezi X Vriska and Rose X Kanaya are overdone and have no chemistry, and just come off as kind of insipid. I dont know why people even like them beyond just "lesbians". Heck, that shouldn't even be a problem, because you've got June now. If you insist that Rose, Vriska, or Terezi must be lesbians for some contrived reason, you've sill got no reason to give flak to people who Grimdorks, JuneVris, or June X Terezi. Heck, even Rose's one page blackrom with Terezi in HS^2 is more interesting than any cannon content from either of their cannon ships.

Rosemary was interesting enough in Act 5, when they were talking via chat client. And then they finally meet, and... nothing really happens. It's not developed beyond "Yeah, they're still here and it's still going exactly how it looked like it would." The closest we get to any real development after that is Rose's alcoholism, which results in... still nothing happening, until John erases it from reality. It's stable, it makes sense, and it was interesting for all of a dozen pages years ago. My guess is people like it because they're more concerned with the first two things.

yeah it seems that once a ship is made overtly "canon," the standards for its writing become lower, because why invest effort into authentically written dialogue when it's easier to just draw a kissing scene or something? i don't think there's a single canon ship besides johnvris that isn't guilty of this.

overThinker wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 9:40 pm

i don't think there's a single canon ship besides johnvris that isn't guilty of this.

AHH THIS

I don't remember there's any other relationship in Homestuck that was being as well-developed and well-written as JohnVris (except Karezi or AraSol, perhaps, though their relationships has been there before the game session, while JohnVris' had been budding along with the game--with the main storyline). The story shows very well on how John and Vriska could get along, how they tried to understand each other, and thus, why they wanted to keep in touch even more later. Their relationship was one of the plot devices, not just an interrupting filler or a fancy addition to the story.

Also, I agree that Grimdork has better chemistry and bonding than Rosemary and Roxygen. I admire their conversations in the earlier acts.

Khiara wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 10:31 pm

The story shows very well on how John and Vriska could get along, how they tried to understand each other, and thus, why they wanted to keep in touch even more later. Their relationship was one of the plot devices, not just an interrupting filler or a fancy addition to the story.

definitely. vriska demonstrated capacity for sympathy and humanity through their interactions, making her death that much more jarring as an event.

(which is kind of why i hate the retcon, lol. after it, she was practically mary sued and flanderized for the sake of narrative cohesion, and it's really a waste of a potentially great character. her pre-retcon ghost's character arc just feels like a much more insightful story and is definitely superior to her spontaneous development of unparalleled plot knowledge for no visible reason, in my opinion.)

Generalrabogolfo wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 3:34 am

theres also people sending death threats in ao3 to authors posting grimdorks when its with john. (not june cause transitioning suddenly makes their relationship perfect in every way apparently)

I guess they don't even care about how their relationship or chemistry works in that way. All they care about is #representation.

calamityCons wrote: ↑

Mon May 18, 2020 1:15 pm

A story of yet another disgusting acts by immature antis

I am so sorry of what happened to you, CC. That's horrifying. I knew they're outrageous, but I didn't know they would go THAT far. Claiming "copyright infringement" on a work just because it "ruins" your ship/headcanon? Seriously?